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Toronto RBC WaterPark Place III | 140.2m | 30s | Oxford Properties | WZMH
- Thread starter Frank
- Start date
canarob
Senior Member
That PATH connection is wild! I don't really like elevated walkways or highways, but that's going to look pretty damn cool. Are they any examples of similar walkways in other cities?
hawc
Senior Member
It's funny I've always thought that too. Everyone hates the Gardiner, but honestly if you walk south on any street to the lake the bigger psychological and physical barrier is the long dark tunnels under the rail tracks. Not the short jaunt under the Gardinder. I'm not anti rail and I'm not proposing ripping up tracks, I just think it's funny that everyone harps on the Gardiner when the bigger barrier is definitely the rail corridor
someMidTowner
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
+1
blacktrojan3921
New Member
So the Royal Bank Plaza will be the headquarters on the international operations of the RBC the?
taal
Senior Member
No, just Canada.
The real 'HQ', if that really means anything, will remain at RBC plaza south tower, that's where the trading department is as well as far as I'm aware.
The North RBC tower (i.e. the shorter one) is fully occupied but 0% to RBC, they have some space in the south tower.
Here's some other news, RBC is moving *something* or expanding, to York Mills center, they took about 200K of office space there ... there was a ton for lease in the building. Not sure what is moving ?
junctionist
Senior Member
I disagree about the rail viaduct being more of a barrier. The underpasses are generally well lit, and you just walk through them like on any ordinary sidewalk. West of the Skydome, you don't even walk under the tracks but rather on open bridges. Yet you still have to walk under the Gardiner and cross Lake Shore.
When crossing the Gardiner, you enter this darkened machine space with a huge amount of cars travelling in every direction and obnoxious noise coming from different directions. The space is dominated by cars, and a person must have a heightened sense of awareness similar to the experience of a driver somewhere where pedestrians dominate. (Except of course, the pedestrians' physical safety is at stake.) If there weren't ramps and the traffic of Lake Shore and a person could just walk under it without any cars, it wouldn't be much of a barrier. Then again, psychological barriers may vary. I'd bury both of them of them to improve the quality of public space downtown and eliminate the possible barriers. We'd also restore vistas of the lake on downtown streets. The Gardiner is probably the easiest option at this point.
Bruvyman
Active Member
I think the height of this building is appropriate for the location. I don't think we need 200-300m high buildings this close to the waterfront and queens quay. And from a skyline perspective, I wouldn't want this tower blocking out all CBD views from the south. It should provide a nice step-up to the CBD and MLS/ICE etc. Overall I think its a nice (though in no way exciting or iconic) looking project and its great to see more office buildings to balance out the new-growth forest of condos in the area.
hawc
Senior Member
I'm not so sure. I think you have just as much obnoxious car noise and smell walking under the tracks then you do crossing the Lakeshore and walking under the Gardiner which is quite high up in the air an much better ventilated then an underpass no matter how well lit. Anyway one man's psychological barrier is another man's treasure I suppose. I think you make an interesting point though that the 6 lanes of Lakeshore traffic might be more of a barrier than the Gardiner high up above.
Southcore
Active Member
The Gardiner is a barrier (would love to see some maybe smaller scale Underpass Park-type improvements could really go a long way) but I agree that the tracks are much worse. When I walk home on York or Lower Simcoe the underpass give the impression you are 'leaving' the city. I often turn and look at 18 York/Delta/Bremner Tower and see what I feel is the city behind me. Even once everything in Southcore is built out I think this feeling will still persist, because of the tracks.
If you walk under the Gardiner at Bathurst, where Lake Shore does not run right under it, the elevated highway doesn't seem like a barrier at all. Mind you, this is also where the Gardiner is the highest, so that makes a difference, but to me the greatest difference is what's going on at ground level, and without the Lake Shore there it does not seem to be a problem.
Meanwhile, back by the RBC complex, the walks under the Gardiner seem to have gotten shorter as the new development in the area has gotten closer to the sides of the Gardiner. Since MLS went in, it feels the York Street crossing seems much shorter, and Ãce and eventually Ten York should further lessen the highway's impact. Getting rid of the York Bay Yonge off ramps should be a major improvement too for the area, so i am hoping a final decision to replace those ramps with a Simcoe ramp will be made in 2012. That can't come soon enough in my opinion: this emerging extension of Downtown to the Queens Quay doesn't need further dissection by more than just the Gardiner itself.
Either way, we these new complexes at 85 Harbour, 90 Harbour/1 York, 60 Harbour, will get a +15 level PATH connection, connected to more options under Union Station (already under construction), so those who do not wish to walk along York or Bay streets sidewalks will have a climate controlled, grade separated way to get there. Now they just need to improve the terrible access to the south PATH at the Air Canada Centre.
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Meanwhile, back by the RBC complex, the walks under the Gardiner seem to have gotten shorter as the new development in the area has gotten closer to the sides of the Gardiner. Since MLS went in, it feels the York Street crossing seems much shorter, and Ãce and eventually Ten York should further lessen the highway's impact. Getting rid of the York Bay Yonge off ramps should be a major improvement too for the area, so i am hoping a final decision to replace those ramps with a Simcoe ramp will be made in 2012. That can't come soon enough in my opinion: this emerging extension of Downtown to the Queens Quay doesn't need further dissection by more than just the Gardiner itself.
Either way, we these new complexes at 85 Harbour, 90 Harbour/1 York, 60 Harbour, will get a +15 level PATH connection, connected to more options under Union Station (already under construction), so those who do not wish to walk along York or Bay streets sidewalks will have a climate controlled, grade separated way to get there. Now they just need to improve the terrible access to the south PATH at the Air Canada Centre.
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Atlantis
Active Member
Often wondered how they got away with not putting in a series of escalators from the ACC atrium up to the PATH bridges, like we have throughout the financial district and now with the new connection between Telus and 18 York. With the future volume of commuters and locals that will be using the bridge south, those stairs are going to become annoying very fast!
nfitz
Superstar
Based on the ones I walk regularly - Cherry, Sherbourne, and Jarvis - I'd disagree with you. Feels much more of a barrier. So does Lakeshore Boulevard itself, which can take 2 pedestrian signals to cross in places. Amazingly, I noticed at the northwest corner of Sherbourne and Lakeshore the other day, that they didn't even have a wheelchair cut in the sidewalk!
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
I find them equally unpleasant - the barren patch of concrete known as Underpass Park, and the greener attempt called Percy Park just to the west of it notwithstanding. The full extent to which these elevated expressways, and the endless drone of automobile noise they convey, undermines the pedestrian experience if you're seeking a tranquil resting place nearbye can't be understated - no matter how valiant the attempt to humanize things by constructing said parkettes. The psychological barrier they represent was fully revealed after an eastern section was removed some years ago; like the sensation of a phantom limb after an amputation, it took quite some time to fully accept that the damn thing was finally gone. But, thank goodness, gone it is.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
It's interesting that they would build an indoor pedestrian bridge to shield pedestrians from the unpleasantness of the Gardiner. They know that expressway will be with us for a loooong time.