Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

C'mon people, like 90% of TTC routes use branching. It's not rocket science.

Um... I'm sorry I guess? Just asking..

So the McMaster part and the James part are two branches that converge on the eastern part? That would mean decreased frequencies for everything west of James. I don't think it's 100% obvious based on that map, since the part that goes to James GO is almost in the middle of the route.
 
The same thing could be done with BRT and changing driving regulations for a fraction of the cost.

It seems to me that we're paying a lot of money for the permanence factor of rail, because Hamilton's Council refuses to implement inexpensive changes to driving regulations to revitalize the area.

I understand why advocates for revitalization are supportive of the LRT (the permanence factor, as I mentwined), but I'll still have a hard time supporting this project given how few people it will move at peak point, hour and direction.
I would take a good BRT. But that is now past; the LRT contracts will be committed with a cancellation penalty before next election.

But 30,000 is not necessarily a permanent number. It is by a specific year. Also, well beyond 2030 will potentially far surpass that (well past 100,000+) when there is massive densification in downtown Hamilton due to unlocked potential (plenty of room for CBD towers to triple when considering things like parking lots and the lowrise businesses along Cannon and Wilson, etc) and LRT is progressively extended over time (Dundas through Stoney Creek), and we have good feeder bus routes. The city was were once projected to grow a few hundred thousand more people before the hard times of the last few decades. LRT is known to attract developers nowadays and, it is an amplifier to parallel revitalization.

The Hamilton LRT relative ratio of developer interest per kilometer before/after is bigger than all the Toronto LRTs including Hurontario. When you look at it even longer term than the study timelines, the LRT option becomes even more attractive. If we make Main a 2-way street during construction, we will likely see projections exceeded quickly. The current planned condos and continuance of that, was not necessarily even accounted for, as nobody dreamed that there was a luxury condo market here when the LRT was first proposed. And James Street Supercrawl did not exist yet. Even when the study was done, it was still a small event not yet six-figure attendance. I would raise even-longer-term LRT projections well into to six figures in a 2-way Main era, with proper concurrent revitalization, and LRT extension when the timescale is through to 2050. The study seems to be worst-case-scenario numbers at this stage, given they were made sometime ago under old assumptions.
 
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I understand why advocates for revitalization are supportive of the LRT (the permanence factor, as I mentwined), but I'll still have a hard time supporting this project given how few people it will move at peak point, hour and direction.

If you read the Rapid Ready Report (see link to article that references it) it it basically estimates that the LRT would spur along three times as much development as a bus system.

On the benefit side, the Canadian Urban Institute estimates that LRT will triple the number of development projects along the transit corridor, from 32 projects to 108. That would bring in an addition $22 million in tax benefits, plus $30 million in building permit fees and development charges. The assessed value of properties along the corridor would increase by $29 million over 15 years.

Building LRT would also save the city $79 million on backlogged unfunded infrastructure maintenance projects along the corridor.

To a city like Hamilton, that new tax revenue is attractive.
 
Um... I'm sorry I guess? Just asking..

So the McMaster part and the James part are two branches that converge on the eastern part? That would mean decreased frequencies for everything west of James. I don't think it's 100% obvious based on that map, since the part that goes to James GO is almost in the middle of the route.

Since the province basically pulled this out of their ... I mean made it up with very little notice, I don't think the actual service implications have been thought through. One option would be three routes, 1) GO to McMaster 2) GO Queenston 3)McMaster to Queenston.
 
I am pretty certain James LRT is a separate route, at least ultimately/eventually.

The James spur is already preplanned more than five years ago, google "BLAST network", you will see the spur is a starter A-Line!

For many years, we have had B-Line which is also an existing bus. And A-line is already planned out on proposed route maps for almost a decade. A-Line is completely on James Street all the way from Hamilton Airport to both GO stations. There is also a James Street up the mountain but cut by the cliff (escarpment), so presumably a tunneled ramp would connect the James Street South with Lower City. The letter A for A-Line stands for Airport, both the airport and the airport business parks that is planned.

What was announced includes an early starter stub A-line, and will eventually double as Hamilton's "airport train" -- maybe in twenty or thirty years, and also to connect Mountain and the business parks that are planned. Someday, all three GTHA airports all connected by rail! And contribute to revitalizing the Hamilton airport much like Porter did to the formerly uglier (than Hamilton's) city centre airport, now Billy Bishop.

Gaining an early start to our A-Line is a fantastic tradeoff for shortening the B-Line slightly for now. We protect for two extendable LRTs. It is a good capaigning point for Mountain councillors (like 905) to let Lower City (like 416) start building the Lower City LRT network as the James route will ultimately go up the escarpment. Some Hamiltom Mountain councillors are not too happy we are getting the LRT.
 
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Indeed. If I was a Hamilton resident I would be elated by the unexpected addition of the James spur.

Hamilton, unlike every other city in Ontario getting an LRT, will appear to be the first city to have an LRT network with multiple lines. I see this announcement as the province funding two (incomplete) LRT lines in Hamilton rather than one.
 
Since the province basically pulled this out of their ... I mean made it up with very little notice, I don't think the actual service implications have been thought through. One option would be three routes, 1) GO to McMaster 2) GO Queenston 3)McMaster to Queenston.

I was thinking about that possibility. If this were the case, then only type 3 LRTs would be able to be used to go "across" James for those travelling from east of James to West of James (or the other way). It would be pretty strange in my opinion. Taking a type 1 vehicle, transferring to a type 2 vehicle at the GO station would probably take too long. You'd have to split your vehicles between the three routes.

Regular branching, like the Green or Red line in Boston or the Washinton Metro or BART, usually has less frequent branches out in the suburbs converging into frequent service where the branches overlap in a central part. I think of it like a river splitting into two or more smaller rivers, service and frequencies are split. So for example if Lawrence East bus is every 10 min and Eglinton East bus is every 10 min, the part where they overlap (Eglinton from Yonge to Leslie) has a bus every 5 min.

This Hamilton route doesn't seem to follow that pattern, unless McMaster and James branches merge into the eastern part.
 
I don't know enough about Hamilton to do anything but wonder, though I suppose one issue would be that the University will tend to have ridership through the day, while the GO station will have big peaks at rush hour but much less traffic mid-day, so there may need to be different types of service at different times of day.
 
It'd be nice to see Hamilton toss in some money to extend the James St line to the waterfront. And, if James is going to be operated as an independent line, to St. Joseph's hospital.

Useless, honestly.

I would rather the money spent on extending the 'A-Line' (James St) portion to TH&B GO Centre on Hunter Street (two blocks south of it's current proposed terminus at King St/B-Line).

I've lived in the North End, the NENs would fight this on their streets. They don't like change.

IMO, if it's going to extend past WestHarbour GO, it should zip west along Stuart St into what was going to be the Stadium, but is now a planned high-density community:
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http://www.tcarch.ca/projects.php?projectID=155
 

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Indeed. If I was a Hamilton resident I would be elated by the unexpected addition of the James spur.

Hamilton, unlike every other city in Ontario getting an LRT, will appear to be the first city to have an LRT network with multiple lines. I see this announcement as the province funding two (incomplete) LRT lines in Hamilton rather than one.

The general consensus (this early anyway) amongst LRT fans, excited politicians and whatnot is that the James St LRT will run it's own line, as to not disrupt East-West movement.

I'm not sure which politician said this (can't easily google a quote), but someone suggested a single lane being used (so therefore only one set of tracks).
I think that would be stupid as when the full A-Line LRT is ready for funding, they'd have to disrupt the street (construction, etc) incl that line all over again.

Either way, the trip between Hamilton's two downtown GO stations can't be more than 7 mins in each direction, so maybe one train would be enough to provide frequent enough service (as long as it's on two sets of tracks lol)
 
Hamilton to get full funding LRT in not just one corridor, but two? It makes me angry honestly. City of Hamilton has been underfunding HSR for decades. HSR is starving for money, ridership is declining due to the neglect and now Hamilton can continue to not spend money on transit while all other cities in Ontario have made serious investments in transit to improve ridership? Hamilton don't deserve this money. They should spend at least one-third. Otherwise it is not right. I think the province is a making serious mistake here. To sell Ontario Hydro is already bad enough but to invest in transit infrastructure in a city that refuses to support public transit is the worst thing they could do.
 
To sell Ontario Hydro is already bad enough but to invest in transit infrastructure in a city that refuses to support public transit is the worst thing they could do.

The language of "deserving" transit is such a toxic one. Is it a good investment? Does it improve quality of life, the future development of a city, etc.? There's no reason why we can't all have good transit infrastructure that meets the current and future needs of our communities, even if some of those communities have dysfunctional political leadership (e.g. Hamilton, Toronto).
 
Hamilton to get full funding LRT in not just one corridor, but two? It makes me angry honestly. City of Hamilton has been underfunding HSR for decades. HSR is starving for money, ridership is declining due to the neglect and now Hamilton can continue to not spend money on transit while all other cities in Ontario have made serious investments in transit to improve ridership? Hamilton don't deserve this money. They should spend at least one-third. Otherwise it is not right. I think the province is a making serious mistake here. To sell Ontario Hydro is already bad enough but to invest in transit infrastructure in a city that refuses to support public transit is the worst thing they could do.
I am against the sale of Hydro One, that I agree with you.
However, I have to make a correction to your post.

I am a Torontoian who has bought a house in Hamilton, so let me chime in.

The province has offered full funding to several others LRT lately, and that's fair. I'd be fine with much better bus service, too. Also, the B-Line manages to move a decent 11,000 per day despite not operating after 7pm, and not operating on weekends. I live near the B-Line but rarely take the B-Line because it does not operate during the hours I need them to. Downtown is only a 30 minute walk or a 5-10min BRT/LRT ride, but we drive to enjoy one of the new restaurants or blossoming new Augusta Street patio pub (forcing myself to be a designated driver). And, they could expand the B-Line using buses, and I would be happy about that, if there was a bus every 7.5 minute or 15 minutes at all times (except maybe a small overnight period 2am-5:30am) to support the pub crowd as well as the late night dinner crowd, not that there's (actual) dozens more restaurants open again downtown (Augusta, John, James, King William, etc) and there are really good longtime restaurants (like Sapporo Japanese Restaurant). And for the first time ever, new luxury condo towers being built along Main and James -- towers which aren't even open yet. 25,000 now work downtown and growing, and we got a new McMaster university satellite campus downtown that just opened less than 12 months ago, not just at the main campus. The transit need is growing, but buses are still decimated (Some routes are really great at peak periods, but if you stand at the bus stop offpeak, you may never see a bus pass by at all). I am witnessing that the downtown density (CBD/towers/condos) is looking like it will easily double in a short time period (20 year timeline) as there are dozens of proposals vying for attention that would rapidly get funded good decisions such as King Street 2-way conversion and LRT.

The LRT for Hamilton would not pay for itself by transit users alone. However, it would certainly pay for itself by a revitalization of the Lower City when properly combined with other revitalization initiatives (Such as eventually making Main a 2-way street).

The A-Line is only a 2-kilometer spur, only to connect to the new GO train station. They shortened the B-Line LRT corridor to create a spur line (2 kilometers long) that is the start of an A-Line corridor. Calling this second route a new LRT corridor is a bit of a stretch (today at the moment) since it's so short that it's considered more of a spur line that connects to the GO train station. That's how it's worded right now. Even if it's squarely directly in the A-Line corridor, it completes only ~10% of the proposed A-Line, only because of the mandatory requirement to connect to the GO train station. It is a part of the Metrolinx Big Move plan even as early as 2007, as part of the BLAST LRT network master plan. So they cannibalized a few km's of the B-Line, shortening it before Stoney Creek (removing three stations) and transferring it to the spur LRT to the GO station (starter 10% of A-Line).

I was a carshare owner. I did not want to bear the cost of owning a car until it became necessary, and admittedly Hamilton is indeed a very car-friendly city. I have had been a transit user for many years. But I don't use Hamilton's buses often because they are woefully insufficient, for my hours. I really do expect that once LRT arrives, it will exceed projections if it runs 19-20+ hours per day, 7 days a week, with frequency no less often than 15 minutes, and preferably every 7.5 minutes.

The boarded-up storefronts have been slowly reducing, and there's none anymore on James Street. One big purpose of LRT is as one piece of the puzzle of the revitalization of Hamilton, and we need to revitalize Main/King/Barton concurrently, such as Main 2-way conversion, LRT on King, etc. Over the long term, the LRT will pay for itself in increased taxpayer revenues in less than twenty years, as compared to doing the bus/BRT option -- the numbers borne this out. Even parts of Barton is getting better, such as the new 541 cafe to things like the relatively recent Barton Village BIA (Which while good, isn't, as successful as James Street when nearby streets and infrastructure are still fairly run down).

A few years ago, James Street had boarded-up storefronts and grafitti. Today, it is a popular street and has an annual event (James St Supercrawl) with over 130,000 attended in 2014. There is potential to revitalize the east-west corridors, if a series of good decisions are made in combination with improved transit (BRT or LRT running almost 24/7/365).

When we were househunting, we found a number of semi-rundown neighborhoods north of King that were slowly getting better. We talked to a few neighbours of some houses, and we remarked many of them said the renters have been declining and new families have been moving in, and that there's no longer prostitutes in their neighborhood. These are people whose kids will be going to McMaster at LRT completion, and some of them work locally but drive by car because they work outside the hours the B-Line runs on. I am getting the sense people want transit, but don't like their Hamilton's options.

Have YOU recently canvassed neighbours, like we did, here in Hamilton, when WE were house hunting? Thought not...

Your interpretation of Hamilton not "deserving" the LRT is incorrect, sir (or madam). And I'm not one of the "entitlement generation" which you might blame me as, being a daily GO commuter to Toronto. Our city council, as harebrained as it is sometimes, have recently managed, somehow, to operate better than the Ford-era Toronto city council, and some brilliant decisions were made, such as those related to James Street.

Most of the Lower City population wants the LRT even if the anti-LRT people are quite vocal. We have repeated voted for pro-LRT city councillors, moreso than places like Scarborough. I wonder if you would say Scarborough is deserving of an LRT, considering Hamilton's population almost the same size as than Scarborough (500K versus 625K). One might argue why Scarborough is deserving of a $4bn+ subway, while Hamilton is not deserving of a $1bn LRT!?!? I'd say both of them deserve an LRT, it would help both immensely. It is a legitimate topic of whether "Is it a good idea for province to spend the money on LRTs" and things like "what are the merits of the controversial Hydro One sale?". But the "Hamilton doesn't deserve an LRT" angle is quite stupid. Even though reworded, it becomes a more legitimate "Should Hamilton get LRT instead of better bus service?" and the latter is more fair debate.

NOW...again, I am against the sale of Hydro One. But that's a separate subject.
 
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Hamilton to get full funding LRT in not just one corridor, but two? It makes me angry honestly. City of Hamilton has been underfunding HSR for decades. HSR is starving for money, ridership is declining due to the neglect and now Hamilton can continue to not spend money on transit while all other cities in Ontario have made serious investments in transit to improve ridership? Hamilton don't deserve this money. They should spend at least one-third. Otherwise it is not right. I think the province is a making serious mistake here. To sell Ontario Hydro is already bad enough but to invest in transit infrastructure in a city that refuses to support public transit is the worst thing they could do.

In general, I think that the province should require 1/3 municipal input to projects. Right now they've given 100% funding to everywhere except Waterloo, which punishes Waterloo for taking their public transit seriously. It kind of encourages municipalities to not invest but instead to hold out for free money from the province. Because they don't have skin in the game, it makes less feasible projects attractive, and removes the incentive to maximize their use of the investment. Some kind of standard policy would be nice. How about everyone gets their first LRT free, but needs to chip in for subsequent ones?

The language of "deserving" transit is such a toxic one. Is it a good investment? Does it improve quality of life, the future development of a city, etc.? There's no reason why we can't all have good transit infrastructure that meets the current and future needs of our communities, even if some of those communities have dysfunctional political leadership (e.g. Hamilton, Toronto).

The question is, given Hamilton's history of prioritizing car traffic over public transit, and of green field development over re-urbanization, will the LRT see its full potential? Having an LRT doesn't guarantee ridership, it takes municipal support (supporting feeder buses, rezoning along the corridor, signal priority for the LRT to the detriment of drivers, pedestrian-friendly urban realm improvements, development incentives) for a billion dollar investment like this to reach its full potential. I want to say yes, and that hopefully this LRT will be the kick that Hamilton needs to reorient itself from sprawl-oriented-development to transit-oriented-development. But it's fair to ask if Hamilton's tepid enthusiasm for LRT demonstrates that this will be not be well-used infrastructure in the same way that the Scarborough, especially given competing demands for limited transit dollars. Personally, I am pretty happy with this investment, and am proud that even smaller Ontario cities will soon have higher-order transit.

Most of the Lower City population wants the LRT even if the anti-LRT people are quite vocal. We have repeated voted for pro-LRT city councillors, moreso than places like Scarborough. I wonder if you would say Scarborough is deserving of an LRT, considering Hamilton's population almost the same size as than Scarborough (500K versus 625K). One might argue why Scarborough is deserving of a $4bn+ subw
It is a legitimate topic of whether "Is it a good idea for province to spend the money on LRTs" and things like "what are the merits of the controversial Hydro One sale?". But the "Hamilton doesn't deserve an LRT" angle is quite stupid. Even though reworded, it becomes a more legitimate "Should Hamilton get LRT instead of better bus service?" and the latter is more fair debate.

Let's debate projects on their merits, not the number of people enclosed in the arbitrary municipal boundary that the project happens to cross.

At least we all agree that selling Hydro One is an awful idea.
 

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