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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

smallspy said:
The issue is not the actual curve per se, but rather the overhead clearances required for the OCS. The SRT upgrade EA shows the LRVs using the existing alignment and grades, and the construction notes show only that the roof of the tunnel needs to be raised. There may be some minor side clearance issues, but nothing that would require a complete tear-down and rebuild.

As for subways on the SRT alignment, that's a no-go. The elevated sections of the line are not capable of handling the weight of fully-loaded subway cars.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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Is there enough room to raise the roof of the tunnel between the tracks above or do they have to lower the encased box down a notch then rebuild the tracks?

Both seem difficult but i don't see how enhancing an existing tunnel and re-configuring platforms on an existing line can take 3 years to complete! Even the track gauge is the same (standard) so really the major work is rebuilding Kennedy station, adding overhead power lines, adjusting and expanding platforms, abandoning Ellesmere station. hmm...
 
accura407 said:
Is there enough room to raise the roof of the tunnel between the tracks above or do they have to lower the encased box down a notch then rebuild the tracks?
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According to the TTC, raising the roof (and slightly increasing the elevation of the rail line above) was deemed to be the easiest and cheapest way to proceed.

accura407 said:
Both seem difficult but i don't see how enhancing an existing tunnel and re-configuring platforms on an existing line can take 3 years to complete! Even the track gauge is the same (standard) so really the major work is rebuilding Kennedy station, adding overhead power lines, adjusting and expanding platforms, abandoning Ellesmere station. hmm...
Click to expand...

Because you have to do all that as well as rebuilding the stations - remember, you're going to have OCS through those as well - all the while you're running GO and freights on the Uxbridge Sub and cars and buses on the surrounding streets. The construction itself is the easy part. The co-ordination, scheduling and staging of the construction is what makes it difficult.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Haha! David Gunn totally hit the nail on the head with what I think of the Eglinton streetcar-subway.

"EGLINTON: “Low-floor streetcars in a tunnel will cost you more than a subway while delivering less. I can’t for the life of me figure out how this decision was made.â€

Cost is a big selling point for light rail, but Mr. Gunn said to put it underground requires tunnels bigger than for subways, while low-floor light-rail vehicles cost twice as much as subway cars and have less capacity. “It’s just crazy, it’s insane.â€

Metrolinx says that the smaller underground stations and reusing the Scarborough RT’s right of way make light rail the more cost-effective option. Mr. Gunn responds, “That’s such nonsense, but I guess if you can defend mixing the track gauges, you can defend anything."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...cision-ever-former-head-warns/article2086415/
 
The enormous advantage of LRT is that it can also be run on the surface. That's where the big savings are. If we want the Eglinton line to connect to the airport, the cheapest way is to run it along the street. If we build a full subway, we either need to change modes at Jane or overbuild to extend a subway west. More money would be saved if we had stuck to the original plan and ran the LRT above ground through the Golden Mile, where there's plenty of capacity.
 
SimonP said:
The enormous advantage of LRT is that it can also be run on the surface. That's where the big savings are. If we want the Eglinton line to connect to the airport, the cheapest way is to run it along the street. If we build a full subway, we either need to change modes at Jane or overbuild to extend a subway west. More money would be saved if we had stuck to the original plan and ran the LRT above ground through the Golden Mile, where there's plenty of capacity.
Click to expand...

I wonder if building the western portion above ground to LRT specs would lead to more savings as opposed to building an elevated ROW built to subway specs? This could be a reason for the stick to LRT technology?

The more I think about LRT, the more I'm starting to lean to it. You can build an at-grade LRT line, then when you want to upgrade you can use the same vehicles and just put the line underground and voila, a subway system without having to purchase new vehicles!
 
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SimonP said:
The enormous advantage of LRT is that it can also be run on the surface. That's where the big savings are. If we want the Eglinton line to connect to the airport, the cheapest way is to run it along the street. If we build a full subway, we either need to change modes at Jane or overbuild to extend a subway west. More money would be saved if we had stuck to the original plan and ran the LRT above ground through the Golden Mile, where there's plenty of capacity.
Click to expand...

It's about building for the future. Eglinton is going underground (as it should have from the getgo) so now we should be looking at what best delivers capacity, underground. Spending more for less capacity is hilarious, in a few decades when Eglinton is a complete mess and conversion to subway will cost heaps of money and headaches, we will wish we hadn't spent more for less. Then again, this is the TTC and I wouldn't hold anything past them.
 
Remember the peak ridership per hour is estimated to hit 5,400 by 2030, compared to about 40,000 on the Yonge line today. LRTs will be able to serve Eglinton well for many decades. Capacity is great, but building it where it's not needed is a waste.
 
SimonP said:
Remember the peak ridership per hour is estimated to hit 5,400 by 2030, compared to about 40,000 on the Yonge line today. LRTs will be able to serve Eglinton well for many decades. Capacity is great, but building it where it's not needed is a waste.
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I think the updated ridership from the recent powerpoint released is at 12, 000 ppdp if I'm not mistaken.
 
SimonP said:
Remember the peak ridership per hour is estimated to hit 5,400 by 2030, compared to about 40,000 on the Yonge line today. LRTs will be able to serve Eglinton well for many decades. Capacity is great, but building it where it's not needed is a waste.
Click to expand...

Actually if you had bothered to read the recent Metrolinx document on the underground Eglinton line, ridership was revised to over 12,000 ppdp.

That is revised by over double the TTC's, now if we're to believe that they lowball these things (which they do) who knows what the ridership will be. Sure capacity where it's not needed is a waste, but spending MORE for LESS capacity seems like an even more colossal waste. We have one shot at doing the right thing with Eglinton, let's not screw it up. Too bad we're going to be riding the ever-so-expensive streetcar tunnel under Eglinton for the foreseeable future.

Instead of building our subway network, we're introducing a new orphan technology into the TTC's mix. Say hello to your $8.6 billion SRT boondoggle for the 2010s, Toronto.
 
With the SRT replacement now being part of the project, you could argue Eglinton should be a full subway, but if the Bombardier LRT contract wasn't a factor, it's very possible Ford would have mothballed Eglinton and concentrated fully on Sheppard (and he would have had the money to do so).

All things considered, I think the current situation is the better deal for Toronto.
 
GenerationW said:
With the SRT replacement now being part of the project, you could argue Eglinton should be a full subway, but if the Bombardier LRT contract wasn't a factor, it's very possible Ford would have mothballed Eglinton and concentrated fully on Sheppard.

All things considered, I think the current situation is the better deal for Toronto.
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Yes, the only reason we're getting an underground LRT is because of the Bombardier contract. Had Metrolinx been a bit more pragmatic, they would have delayed the contract to after the municipal elections (only a few months away at the time), but they didn't, so now we're stuck with another orphan technology. The 1980s had the Mark 1 trains, the 2010s have the grossly overpriced low-floor LRTs.
 
Filip said:
Had Metrolinx been a bit more pragmatic, they would have delayed the contract to after the municipal elections (only a few months away at the time), but they didn't
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Was it that, or Miller & Giambrone pushing and prodding Metrolinx to finalize the deal? One side cared a lot more about a municipal election deadline than the other.
 
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