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Toronto, Capital of North America?

I think we all need to be careful what we wish for here. Toronto is very connected to the US and we're a major exporter. Sure the recession hasn't affected us as much as them but we're still hurting because of it. When the US does well so do we.


What's more impressive is that half of that growth is within the old city of Toronto, which shows how much of an impact the condo boom is having. Hopefully the trend continues.


Hold on, since when is Montreal decaying? It's actually doing pretty well for itself now. Not growing like Toronto, but it's still growing.

Montreal is a has been city constrained by Bill 101. Montreal is the Washington DC of Canada.
 
That's true. But as they make more and more goods for the world and the Chinese themselves start to consume more goods as a result of their relative prosperity, then their economy will better sustain itself. Whereas much of North America has lost its historical manufacturing capacity - we ceded it to China and a host of other nations. We'll have to spend time and resources to build that back up.

Anyway, Toronto may have a lot going for it but it's far-fetched to expect it's going to soon be the premier destination city of the continent.

Toronto should be. Yes we have problems but this city is centrally positioned. Bad Marketing.
 
There is only so much Toronto itself can do... it requires the support of government at the provincial and federal level to smooth the way for increased business transactions with Pacific rim nations. If Toronto does well, it will be due to the entire country having changed as well. In fact, the West and the North will likely lead the charge - that's where the energy supplies and the raw materials the Chinese so crave are located. Ontario and the East will have its work cut out for themselves just to be heard above the din.

I think Harper believes he is acting for the entire country - not merely Toronto - in courting the Chinese for business purposes. For one thing, he's keen to help ink a bunch of lucrative, long-term energy deals. The rate of Chinese ownership of energy powerhouses in Canada seems to be surging upwards. Keystone appears to be quite dead; the Harper government has already moved on from looking exclusively at the States for brokering energy deals and partnerships. The expectations are that the future players on the world stage are the Chinese. So the shift has already begun.

But to frame the discussion around what Toronto alone can do is, I think, mistaken. It's a much bigger game than that.

Great Post. But Should Toronto and Vancouver not have increased roles then? Cities are central to the economy so they should have more of a say.
 
Absolutely agreed. Alas, good luck getting rural Canada to agree with that sentiment. And I can't say as I blame them.

Around the world, increasingly, major cities are the economic engines of their respective countries and regions.
 
Manufacturing left because our labour costs are high, how do we compensate for that? subsidies?

I don't agree with this "labour costs are high" arguments. To me, it is more like looking for excuse, or worse, whining.

Is labour cost high in Germany? In Japan? Did that prevent them from being the largest exporters of the world? Canada's manufacturing export is in trouble because it lacks a competitive advantage. I am sick of people complain about labour being so cheap in China or India so they took our jobs, as if it is all others' fault. Canada as an advanced economy is NOT supposed to compete with China and India on products requiring low skills in the first place. Anyone with 2 months of training can make auto parts, why do you think Canadian workers should make more money than others any way. Keep making auto parts for GM and Ford, good luck with that.

Do we have competitive and innovative enterprises such as Siemens, Apple, Sony, Samsung, WV, DaimlerChrysler? The Chinese can produce cheap cars, TVs and phones but can they compete with Mercedes, Sony/Samsung and Apple? Did you know for every $500 Iphone Apple produces in China, China only gets to keep like $10, while the rest profit goes to the US? Do you know how many million pairs of socks the Chinese must make and export in order to buy one Boeing 767?

What does Canada have? Even RIM is dying in its own arrogance. You can't expect to thrive when everyone is demand high salary yet not producing far superior products than developing countries. Why do we think an auto worker in Canada should have a life quality an Indian one can't even dream of his entire life? If others can produce the same thing for a fraction of the cost, that's called "advantage".

Stop blaming others and start creating. The old "produce for America" is not gonna work any more.

China itself is facing rapidly rising labour costs believe it or not, and will encounter competition from other countries where labour is even cheaper. Canada can NEVER compete with that unless you lock the door and stop trading. The only way is to innovate and do better than others. China can manufacture as much as it wants, it is the guy at the top who reaps most of the profit and becomes rich.

What does Canada have? Anyone heard of any internationally famous Canadian brand?

No one says life is easy and a country gets to be rich while not trying as hard as others.
 
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I don't agree with this "labour costs are high" arguments. To me, it is more like looking for excuse, or worse, whining.

Is labour cost high in Germany? In Japan? Did that prevent them from being the largest exporters of the world? Canada's manufacturing export is in trouble because it lacks a competitive advantage. I am sick of people complain about labour being so cheap in China or India so they took our jobs, as if it is all others' fault. Canada as an advanced economy is NOT supposed to compete with China and India on products required low skills in the first place. Anyone with 2 months of training can make auto parts, why do you think Canadian workers should make more money than others any way. Keep making auto parts for GM and Ford, good luck with that.

Do we have competitive and innovative enterprises such as Siemens, Apple, Sony, Samsung, WV, DaimlerChrysler? The Chinese can produce cheap cars, TVs and phones but can they compete with Mercedes, Sony/Samsung and Apple? Did you know for every $500 Iphone Apple produces in China, China only gets to keep like $10, while the rest profit goes to the US? Do you know how many million pairs of socks the Chinese must make and export in order to buy one Boeing 767?

What does Canada have? Even RIM is dying in its own arrogance. You can't expect to thrive when everyone is demand high salary yet not producing far superior products than developing countries. Why do we think an auto worker in Canada should have a life quality an Indian one can't even dream of his entire life? If others can produce the same thing for a fraction of the cost, that's called "advantage".

Stop blaming others and start creating. The old "produce for America" is not gonna work any more.

China itself is facing rapidly rising labour costs believe it or not, and will encounter competition from other countries where labour is even cheaper. Canada can NEVER compete with that unless you lock the door and stop trading. The only way is to innovate and do better than others. China can manufacture as much as it wants, it is the guy at the top who reaps most of the profit and becomes rich.

What does Canada have? Anyone heard of any internationally famous Canadian brand?

No one says life is easy and a country gets to be rich while not trying as hard as others.

Truly Global? Probably Nothing. Maybe the maple Leafs? Tim Hortons? Otherwise great post. Toronto, Detroit and Chicago even after this bullshit recession, are still the first second and third largest producers of cars and car parts on the continent.
 
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Absolutely agreed. Alas, good luck getting rural Canada to agree with that sentiment. And I can't say as I blame them.

Around the world, increasingly, major cities are the economic engines of their respective countries and regions.

Cities need a more central role. Rural Canada is not ready to accept it is the past.
 
Well, I wouldn't call agrarian rural Canada "the past" at all. This world is going to need ever greater amounts of food to meet the needs of the teeming billions. Quality food, and access to arable land and fresh water, are going to be huge stakes in the future. Breadbasket regions around the world will remain crucially important.

But in terms of driving national economies and coming up with clever solutions to contemporary problems, cities are where the main action will be.
 
Truly Global? Probably Nothing. Maybe the maple Leafs? Tim Hortons? Otherwise great post. Toronto, Detroit and Chicago even after this bullshit recession, are still the first second and third largest producers of cars and car parts on the continent.

To add my point about stop whining about cheap Chinese labour earlier: Both Japan and Germany run a trade surplus with China, which means they sell more to China than they buy from it, despite China's labour being a lot cheaper. I am sure both countries are thankful for the employment opportunities the Chinese market offers. Germany cars and machinery and Japanese electronics flood the Chinese market from Beijing to Hong Kong.

In the end, you need to produce good stuff others are willing to buy.
 
The North American continent appears to be entering a twilight of cities past anything Jane Jacobs could have foreseen. I don't see any reason to think that Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Memphis, New Orleans, Montreal or any of a hundred smaller American and Canadian cities will do anything other than fall further and further into complete decay; centers such as Boston, Portland and San Francisco are barely holding steady numbers; New York and Los Angeles face the challenges of decaying infrastructure and growing social disorder; cities in Mexico are arguably in even worse shape; and most Canadian and American cities with healthy growth are dependent on commodities economies (Houston, Calgary).

Is Toronto, with diverse economic growth, social stability and riding an even-handed development wave, positioned to become the alpha city for the whole continent? (Before we get the chorus that New York is bigger, let me remind you that Sao Paulo is bigger than New York and no one, not even the Brazilians, would posit that it is more important for that reason alone.)

Yes, the above is hyperbole to an extent. But it may be less and less so if the global economy goes into another slump.

Funny how nobody's poured ice-cold water upon that Toronto-supreme tableau by raising the present mayor...
 
Well said, kkgg7. Something too few seem to realise is that the first people we should be blaming is ourselves. Thanks for pointing out the trade surplus that Germany and Japan have with China. German factory workers make no less money than Canadian ones and I'm going to venture a guess that the case is the same in Japan. So, clearly, the problem isn't the wages being paid to workers here, which is a common bullshit argument used by those decrying the pay of the working classes. GM should leave the country as far as I'm concerned, for example. Hasn't insanity been described as doing the same thing over and over again whilst expecting a different result?

Toronto needs to become a stronger financial centre, first and foremost. Forget top ten bollocks...I'm talking top 5 in the world. Poach those losing their jobs in London and New York. Bring in companies leaving England and the US because of government incompetence.
Toronto needs to become a haven for mining companies which is something we have a strong base to build on. Calgary can keep their oil companies and related outward expansion.
If we are to be exporters of manufactured goods, these need to be something truly innovative that people want. Quality goods. GM cars this ain't. (Yes, I have a hate-on for GM).

We're very lucky with what we have and I have a lot of hope for the future (I'm 27) but a lot of the old thinking (I'm 27) needs to go. Our reliance on the US economy is not only worrying, scary as hell, lazy, complacent, and just plain idiotic; it's right suicidal. Let's start by diversifying our export base. Move on from there to incubating innovation and see where that gets us.

PS: to answer the thread title question: Toronto is already the capital of North America to me. I'm of a mind that Ontario is the best country in the world. :p
 
I don't agree with this "labour costs are high" arguments. To me, it is more like looking for excuse, or worse, whining.

Is labour cost high in Germany? In Japan? Did that prevent them from being the largest exporters of the world?

How many manufacturing companies in Germany and Japan are foreign owned vs those in Canada? I'm curious.
 
How many manufacturing companies in Germany and Japan are foreign owned vs those in Canada? I'm curious.

I can't say for Germany, but Japan is a very introverted country where owning a majority of its major companies is extremely difficult. Big companies have the system of cross holding each other's share, which makes it impossible for a foreign takeover. It is very unlike the anglo-saxon system where you can buy enough stake from one or two shareholder and boom, you control the company.

What I also find funny is that, there is one Canadian energy company that is recently wholly owned by the Chinese, and everyone seems to freak out, including most of the media, as if China is taking over. However, for the past 100 years, Americans kept buying and owning hundreds of Canadian companies, and everyone seems not bothered even a bit.

America, like China, is another country, and will always care about its own national interest. Many don't seem to realize that.
 
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I can't say for Germany, but Japan is a very introverted country where owning a majority of its major companies is extremely difficult. Big companies have the system of cross holding each other's share, which makes it impossible for a foreign takeover. It is very unlike the anglo-saxon system where you can buy enough stake from one or two shareholder and boom, you control the company.

Maybe our companies don't have enough of a stake in this country to keep the jobs here? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Caterpillar just move their operations from London to a state that is fairly anti-union? I would agree that the issue isn't exactly that our labour is too expensive, but rather than because they can get it cheaper elsewhere they will in order to turn a bigger profit for shareholders. Again, I'm just guessing.
 

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