Tulse
Senior Member
Yes, the SoBi system lets you look for bikes using an app, but the bikes can be parked anywhere, and like you, that seems less convenient to me.
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Toronto Bike Share
- Thread starter kettal
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timeo
New Member
I've worked on implementing a bike sharing system and the cost estimates that we got per bike for BIXI were in the range of $5500/bike, and this was before the costs of acquiring any needed land for the stations or making any bike path/lane improvements. SoBi bikes are much cheaper because you don't have to pay for the stations, you don't need to make sure that stations have electrical/wifi/cellular access, and because the bikes themselves are mostly made of off-the-shelf components. The drawback in a system like this though is that you never know where bikes will be, and even though you can go online or use your smart phone to find them, it puts people without the internet/smart phone at a serious disadvantage.
Filip
Senior Member
No expansion of Bixi = not renewing my membership.
It's a shame.. I bike quite a bit now from work to the parking lot on the days I decide to drive. Oh well, they had their opportunity.
It's a shame.. I bike quite a bit now from work to the parking lot on the days I decide to drive. Oh well, they had their opportunity.
jje1000
Senior Member
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/24/big-boost-planned-for-city-bike-trails
You are a rather impatient man. As said by rbt back in the Skyscrapercity Toronto forums:
rbt said:
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voxpopulicosmicum
Senior Member
Ah, Filip, how's that youthful intemperance coming along?
Seriously, though -- I, too, have been pissed to find that my luxurious winter of always-available Bixi bikes and parking spots has given way to the opposite phenomenon. But I'm holding out hope for expansion and, in the short run, a better use of the bike-mover to address congestion issues.
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City tender just posted:
Options for the assumption, delivery and operation of the BIXI Toronto public bicycle program by a third party
The purpose of this RFI is to invite qualified Respondents to provide information to the City of Toronto on options for the potential assumption, delivery and operation of the BIXI Toronto program by a third party.
This RFI process is governed by the terms and conditions in Appendix ‘B’. Participation in the RFI process in no way precludes any party from participating in any subsequent procurement process that may arise out of this RFI process. This RFI is not a pre-qualification process.
Issue date: May 13, 2013 Closing date: June 4, 2013
at 12:00 Noon
Scope of work:
The RFI will assist the City and BIXI Toronto Inc. to determine the possible options for the future assumption of ownership, operation and delivery of the program and the most appropriate business model for continuing the BIXI bike sharing program in Toronto. The new business model could include a change in ownership for BIXI Toronto Inc., new operating and financial models and any other ideas that might to improve the financial viability of the bike share program. Respondents should address their proposed "Concept" for assuming the ownership, delivery and operation of the BIXI Toronto bike share program, including any proposed terms, conditions, requirements or assumptions.
Options for the assumption, delivery and operation of the BIXI Toronto public bicycle program by a third party
The purpose of this RFI is to invite qualified Respondents to provide information to the City of Toronto on options for the potential assumption, delivery and operation of the BIXI Toronto program by a third party.
This RFI process is governed by the terms and conditions in Appendix ‘B’. Participation in the RFI process in no way precludes any party from participating in any subsequent procurement process that may arise out of this RFI process. This RFI is not a pre-qualification process.
Issue date: May 13, 2013 Closing date: June 4, 2013
at 12:00 Noon
Scope of work:
The RFI will assist the City and BIXI Toronto Inc. to determine the possible options for the future assumption of ownership, operation and delivery of the program and the most appropriate business model for continuing the BIXI bike sharing program in Toronto. The new business model could include a change in ownership for BIXI Toronto Inc., new operating and financial models and any other ideas that might to improve the financial viability of the bike share program. Respondents should address their proposed "Concept" for assuming the ownership, delivery and operation of the BIXI Toronto bike share program, including any proposed terms, conditions, requirements or assumptions.
ShonTron
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Why I'm not renewing my Bixi Toronto membership
I was surprised and upset to see that the Bixi Station on Lennox Street at Bathurst was suddenly moved - to Queen and Ossington. The Bathurst/Lennox station was the closest one to me, and the only one within a five minute walk from home.
The two new locations on Queen west of Bathurst (the other one is at Niagara) are in theory a good idea - part of Bixi's problem was its small catchment area. But this is rearranging deck chairs without really expanding.
I signed up to Bixi because I wanted to support it, as I have my own bikes and use those most of the time. But now it has become even less useful to me.
I was surprised and upset to see that the Bixi Station on Lennox Street at Bathurst was suddenly moved - to Queen and Ossington. The Bathurst/Lennox station was the closest one to me, and the only one within a five minute walk from home.
The two new locations on Queen west of Bathurst (the other one is at Niagara) are in theory a good idea - part of Bixi's problem was its small catchment area. But this is rearranging deck chairs without really expanding.
I signed up to Bixi because I wanted to support it, as I have my own bikes and use those most of the time. But now it has become even less useful to me.
dowlingm
Senior Member
For me there are a couple of players with the ability to do something for Bixi right now:
1. Metrolinx. Converting Bixi's payment system to Presto at their expense would gain it thousands of possible 905 users immediately and may see some Bixi users switch from tokens to Presto taps for trips through downtown Presto-equipped stations (Queen’s Park, St. George, St. Patrick, Union, Dundas, College, Bloor/Yonge). Sufficient such usage might lead Metrolinx and TTC to consider adding a few more terminals at stations like Bay, Spadina and Sherbourne without waiting for the full PNG rollout.
2. Gord Perks, Adam Vaughan, Pam McConnell, Kristin Wong-Tam and Mike Layton. Section 37 cash could fund additional docks in their neighbourhoods and one assumes that Ford would have limited ability to stop them. If the Bixi network could stretch using S37 money to GO Exhibition and GO Bloor then that provides additional linkages to Metrolinx and Presto.
1. Metrolinx. Converting Bixi's payment system to Presto at their expense would gain it thousands of possible 905 users immediately and may see some Bixi users switch from tokens to Presto taps for trips through downtown Presto-equipped stations (Queen’s Park, St. George, St. Patrick, Union, Dundas, College, Bloor/Yonge). Sufficient such usage might lead Metrolinx and TTC to consider adding a few more terminals at stations like Bay, Spadina and Sherbourne without waiting for the full PNG rollout.
2. Gord Perks, Adam Vaughan, Pam McConnell, Kristin Wong-Tam and Mike Layton. Section 37 cash could fund additional docks in their neighbourhoods and one assumes that Ford would have limited ability to stop them. If the Bixi network could stretch using S37 money to GO Exhibition and GO Bloor then that provides additional linkages to Metrolinx and Presto.
k10ery
Senior Member
They moved the station in front of the CSI??? Seems crazy. These are the people who love Bixi and lobby for it - whether they use it or have their own bikes.
ShonTron
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Not right in front - more like against the Central Tech annex building, but yeah, pretty much in front of CSI Annex, and the default station for Mirvish Village, Bloor Cinema as well as Central Tech. That was a nice big double station. I found it useful for those days when I would bike to work knowing that I wouldn't be planning to bike back for whatever reason, and even the 5 minute walk there and the station a block from work, still faster than the TTC.
canmark
Active Member
Just came across this handy list of North American cities with Bixi-like bike share programs (and their costs): http://www.jaunted.com/story/2013/6...ed+Guide+to+City+Bike+Shares+in+North+America
DSC
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On July 3 the Executive Committee is considering a staff report on BIXI. See: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2013.EX33.19
On the same day they are considering another Staff Report on a Pan-Am Legacy and one of the proposals is an EXPANSION of BIXI. See Appendix E11 of http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-59687.pdf "East extension: In the area bounded by Queen St (north), the rail line (south), the Don River (east) and Parliament St (west) West extension: Extend service coverage area to encompass Exhibition Place. Wards: 19, 28"
On the same day they are considering another Staff Report on a Pan-Am Legacy and one of the proposals is an EXPANSION of BIXI. See Appendix E11 of http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-59687.pdf "East extension: In the area bounded by Queen St (north), the rail line (south), the Don River (east) and Parliament St (west) West extension: Extend service coverage area to encompass Exhibition Place. Wards: 19, 28"
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This from todays' Montreal Gazette:
No matter what happens to Toronto’s deficit-ridden Bixi bicycle sharing service, Montreal taxpayers will not be on the hook for the $3.9 million it has already accrued in debt, Michel Philibert, a Bixi executive said Thursday.
The Bixi bike program, funded and created by the city of Montreal, has been something of a flop in Canada’s largest city with only about 4,600 subscribers to the service as of April — compared to 50,000 in Montreal. But Toronto city councillors say that the program hasn’t been given a chance to succeed and council is looking at ways to save its floundering version of Bixi.
In April, Toronto officials admitted Bixi Toronto Inc, the company that runs the city’s Bixi program, owed $1 million to suppliers and was not making enough money to pay off its debt. The city of Toronto backed a $4.5-million bank loan to bring the program to the city in May 2011. As a result, its taxpayers will be responsible for covering the debt, which now stands at $3.9 million, if the company folds.
Bixi Toronto is an offshoot of the Public Bike System Co., a private company controlled by the City of Montreal that created Bixi and sold the system to cities worldwide, making Montreal liable for its operating losses.
But despite Montreal’s financial stake in the program, Philibert told The Gazette that Toronto will ultimately foot the bill should their bike network shutter its doors.
“Bixi did fund the loan that got us started in Toronto but that loan was guaranteed by Toronto,” said Philibert, interim head of operations at Bixi. “Right now we’re in discussions with Toronto and it’s going very well, there’s no panic or anything like that.”
The news may come as something of a relief to Montreal city hall, which loaned Bixi $108 million in 2011 to cover the expenses it accrued during an international expansion that saw the service take root in New York City, Boston, Melbourne and London among other cities.
Réal Ménard, the Montreal councillor responsible for transport, said taxpayers should not be forced to cover the losses of a Toronto program running a deficit.
If Bixi Toronto is on the verge of going under, there are three possible scenarios, according to Ménard:
The city of Toronto takes over responsibility for the program and its debts, an option Bixi Montreal is pushing for;
A private third-party firm takes over the program in Toronto, which Ménard classified as unlikely;
Bixi goes under and Montreal ends the program, assuming a small, unknown amount of transfer costs, although Ménard said it would likely be in the realm of $30,000 to $100,000. As of Thursday, Ménard said he thought this was the most likely outcome.
He did not know if the city would inherit Toronto’s 1,000 bicycles, valued at about $1,000 each. It’s also unclear what the labour costs of dismantling Toronto’s stations would be.
However, it appears Toronto’s city council is working toward having a municipal agency such as the parking authority or transit corporation take it over. Some councillors have suggested money earmarked for an expensive and to date unsuccessful public toilet program be used instead to cover Bixi’s deficit.
“It would be a real shame to lose the program because it’s popular and this city doesn’t exactly have a stellar reputation when it comes to bicycle access,” said Toronto Danforth councillor Paula Fletcher. “We’re trying to find the sweet spot here where we can save the system, create a better bicycle lane network downtown and even expand Bixi. It’s going to take a financial surgeon but we have lots of surgeons here.”
Embattled Toronto Mayor Rob Ford famously compared bike lanes to “swimming with sharks” during a speech he made while sitting as a councillor in 2010. At the time, Ford advocated the lanes be ripped out and replaced with more parking spaces and road infrastructure.
Since being elected mayor, Ford hasn’t had a change of heart in regards to expanding the city’s cycling infrastructure. In fact, Ford actually limited Toronto’s implementation of Bixi, cancelling a deal that would have seen 3,000 bikes rolled out across Canada’s largest city, opting instead to limit the service to 1,000 bicycles. The initial plan would have made Bixi much more profitable, according to Ménard.
Toronto city councillors said the issue would only be resolved in the fall. Montreal has to give the Toronto owners three months’ notice if it plans to sever ties.
The PBSC’s international arm and its contracts were on the verge of being sold in June, Ménard said, but the deal fell through over contractual disagreements he said the city is still hoping to iron out. The deadline for the sales contract was at the end of June.
The Gazette has reported that Procycle, a bike-maker based in Quebec’s Beauce region, was expected to buy the international operations, and the Société de transport de Montréal is expected to take over the Montreal network and other Canadian systems.
Although the PBSC earned about $50 million in 2012 it posted an overall deficit of just under $3 million. Philibert says new and audited financial data will be made public shortly.
Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...st+exec+says/8617653/story.html#ixzz2YAuwaB6O
No matter what happens to Toronto’s deficit-ridden Bixi bicycle sharing service, Montreal taxpayers will not be on the hook for the $3.9 million it has already accrued in debt, Michel Philibert, a Bixi executive said Thursday.
The Bixi bike program, funded and created by the city of Montreal, has been something of a flop in Canada’s largest city with only about 4,600 subscribers to the service as of April — compared to 50,000 in Montreal. But Toronto city councillors say that the program hasn’t been given a chance to succeed and council is looking at ways to save its floundering version of Bixi.
In April, Toronto officials admitted Bixi Toronto Inc, the company that runs the city’s Bixi program, owed $1 million to suppliers and was not making enough money to pay off its debt. The city of Toronto backed a $4.5-million bank loan to bring the program to the city in May 2011. As a result, its taxpayers will be responsible for covering the debt, which now stands at $3.9 million, if the company folds.
Bixi Toronto is an offshoot of the Public Bike System Co., a private company controlled by the City of Montreal that created Bixi and sold the system to cities worldwide, making Montreal liable for its operating losses.
But despite Montreal’s financial stake in the program, Philibert told The Gazette that Toronto will ultimately foot the bill should their bike network shutter its doors.
“Bixi did fund the loan that got us started in Toronto but that loan was guaranteed by Toronto,” said Philibert, interim head of operations at Bixi. “Right now we’re in discussions with Toronto and it’s going very well, there’s no panic or anything like that.”
The news may come as something of a relief to Montreal city hall, which loaned Bixi $108 million in 2011 to cover the expenses it accrued during an international expansion that saw the service take root in New York City, Boston, Melbourne and London among other cities.
Réal Ménard, the Montreal councillor responsible for transport, said taxpayers should not be forced to cover the losses of a Toronto program running a deficit.
If Bixi Toronto is on the verge of going under, there are three possible scenarios, according to Ménard:
The city of Toronto takes over responsibility for the program and its debts, an option Bixi Montreal is pushing for;
A private third-party firm takes over the program in Toronto, which Ménard classified as unlikely;
Bixi goes under and Montreal ends the program, assuming a small, unknown amount of transfer costs, although Ménard said it would likely be in the realm of $30,000 to $100,000. As of Thursday, Ménard said he thought this was the most likely outcome.
He did not know if the city would inherit Toronto’s 1,000 bicycles, valued at about $1,000 each. It’s also unclear what the labour costs of dismantling Toronto’s stations would be.
However, it appears Toronto’s city council is working toward having a municipal agency such as the parking authority or transit corporation take it over. Some councillors have suggested money earmarked for an expensive and to date unsuccessful public toilet program be used instead to cover Bixi’s deficit.
“It would be a real shame to lose the program because it’s popular and this city doesn’t exactly have a stellar reputation when it comes to bicycle access,” said Toronto Danforth councillor Paula Fletcher. “We’re trying to find the sweet spot here where we can save the system, create a better bicycle lane network downtown and even expand Bixi. It’s going to take a financial surgeon but we have lots of surgeons here.”
Embattled Toronto Mayor Rob Ford famously compared bike lanes to “swimming with sharks” during a speech he made while sitting as a councillor in 2010. At the time, Ford advocated the lanes be ripped out and replaced with more parking spaces and road infrastructure.
Since being elected mayor, Ford hasn’t had a change of heart in regards to expanding the city’s cycling infrastructure. In fact, Ford actually limited Toronto’s implementation of Bixi, cancelling a deal that would have seen 3,000 bikes rolled out across Canada’s largest city, opting instead to limit the service to 1,000 bicycles. The initial plan would have made Bixi much more profitable, according to Ménard.
Toronto city councillors said the issue would only be resolved in the fall. Montreal has to give the Toronto owners three months’ notice if it plans to sever ties.
The PBSC’s international arm and its contracts were on the verge of being sold in June, Ménard said, but the deal fell through over contractual disagreements he said the city is still hoping to iron out. The deadline for the sales contract was at the end of June.
The Gazette has reported that Procycle, a bike-maker based in Quebec’s Beauce region, was expected to buy the international operations, and the Société de transport de Montréal is expected to take over the Montreal network and other Canadian systems.
Although the PBSC earned about $50 million in 2012 it posted an overall deficit of just under $3 million. Philibert says new and audited financial data will be made public shortly.
Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...st+exec+says/8617653/story.html#ixzz2YAuwaB6O
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The TTC report on BIXI is out, it does not recommend that the TTC take it over. http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...2013/July_24/Reports/Board_Enquiry_about_.pdf
rbt
Senior Member
I'm very disappointed with their evaluation of it. There was no consideration to changing Bixi's business model to better fit in with what TTC currently does; just complaints that they do not currently align.
TTC buses are most heavily used within 3km of the subway station. This is their peak point and any trips you can divert off a bus (fairly expensive) onto another mode for busy routes is going to have significant financial benefits.
For example, if you diverted 100 trips/hour off peak-hour buses on Finch West and Finch East within 3km of Finch station, that is 4 fewer buses that are needed during rush hour.
4 buses is $2 Million in capital and around $300,000/year in operating costs.
Change Bixi to charge a standard TTC fare (tokens, Metropass, cash, Presto), and allow transfers to other TTC vehicles. There is no revenue lost but expenses should have been reduced. It only takes 1 person and 1 vehicle to redistribute the bikes and the capital for a single subway station (say 24 bike locations) is about 1.2Million.
Savings, if it worked, would be around $250,000/year ($800k every 15 years in capital and $200k/year in operating costs).
Rather than a blanket of Bixi stations, set it up as an alternative to the short-trips on busy bus routes where TTC currently struggles to add capacity. Accept transfers and charge a standard fare.
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