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Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid (Dead)
- Thread starter Southcore
- Start date
Tewder
Senior Member
Or, you know, we could just try something do-able.... um, like an Olympics... like people here seem to think we'd be competent to pull off.... so there's that. Thanks for the reduction to absurdity though, very constructive.
Euphoria
Active Member
I'll be impressed if Tory can get the private sector to foot the entire bill. I actually think some level of public spending on this is a good thing, because there will be civic benefits. Just one thing I want to say about this 'us versus them' narrative that some of the NoTO crowd are using: Please don't dumb down the conversation with this class warfare notion that it's the corporate elites running the show and we're all just pawns. It's unhelpful. Knowledge is power and powerful ideas will sway opinion, but we have to hear them. Unfortunately most of the NoTO crowd bring forward the kind of civic visions that might be appropriate for Buffalo, but not Canada's largest and most dynamic city.
christiesplits
Senior Member
I'm not sure if having the corporate sector pick up the bill for the bid will help them counter that opinion.
Tewder
Senior Member
It's sad you find this funny. We've asked the 'wehaveNohopeTO' side repeatedly to clarify other real options for achieving infrastructure, revitalization and transit (the right ones, not boondoggles) improvements, securing funding and political will for these things within a real timeline, while promoting Toronto globally to ensure its ongoing future competitive stature. They are fresh out of ideas though. Oh we've heard them wax philosophically and fantasize about all the things they'd like to see - many of which I would agree with by the way - yet no strategy other than praying for miracles that the status quo will somehow change. So tell me just who is 'negging' here again?
animatronic
Senior Member
See, that's the problem with you Yes Olympics people - you think too small.
Videodrome
Senior Member
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015...mpic-games-bid-proposal/#.VeXvkK-Cs2U.twitter
Los Angeles is all in.
Los Angeles is all in.
Tewder
Senior Member
Would we get secured funding from upper levels of government for these things? No. One of the advantages of the Olympics is their scope and scale. Not to say that these events and others wouldn't benefit from the global exposure of an Olympics, they would!
Oversight and inter-government cooperation is just about the best way to improve policy outcomes. How many more decades do you need to observe inertia and self-serving politics in this city for this to sink in?
Wow, the thinking of the wehaveNohopeTO group must literally be undetectable to you then.
Jonny5
Senior Member
"Tory wants private sector to pay for bid."
The corruption begins already. 'Better contribute for the bid or you won't get contracts!'
The corruption begins already. 'Better contribute for the bid or you won't get contracts!'
animatronic
Senior Member
The private sector pay is a critical part of the equation - it means council doesn't need to vote on spending money until the BidCo is up and running (officially - it's already going right now).
Tewder
Senior Member
Wouldn't that be good news then? Wouldn't you want to at least see a bid without taxpayers having to pay for it, or are you afraid that it might actually end up being something constructive?
animatronic
Senior Member
No, it's bad news. The BidCo is acting like a crack dealer - "the first $50M are on me, but the next $15B are on you". By not funding the bid, taxpayers can't exercise good governance. It delays a council vote and gives him time to get the BidCo off the ground. It's as stupid as praising the Fords for (supposedly) donating their salaries to charity.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
Let the Games begin — somewhere else: Hume
Toronto isn’t ready — economically or emotionally — to host the Olympics.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/09/01/hume-let-the-games-begin-somewhere-else.html
By: Christopher Hume Urban Issues and Architecture, Published on Tue Sep 01 2015
The answer is as simple as the question: Should Toronto bid for the 2024 Olympics? No.
The Pan Am Games were a great success; everyone had a good time — even a few commuters were able to enjoy themselves. Even better, the event enhanced quality of life in the city and the Greater Toronto Area.
The legacy of the sweat fest includes state-of-the-art aquatic facilities, a velodrome and a much-needed student residence that began life as the venue for the athletes’ big sleep-over.
But let’s be honest; from the start the appeal of hosting the Pan Am Games was based on its ability to leverage public money to pay for infrastructure projects that would otherwise languish. At best, the athletics were an excuse.
Some cities have used these revenues to remake themselves. Some have squandered the opportunity and been burdened with enormous debt. Barcelona comes to mind; but so does Montreal. The former used Olympic cash to transform itself into one of Europe’s most urban centres. The latter ended up with little more than a crumbling stadium and a $1.6-billion bill that took 30 years to pay off.
On the other hand, compared with the excesses of the Potemkin Games in Beijing and Sochi, the London Olympics of 2012 seemed to restore an element of sanity to an event grown bloated, bureaucratic and corrupt.
Though the Olympics are justified on the basis of the nobility of sport, the fact is that such high-stakes competitions are just as likely to bring out the inner cheater in athletes as their sense of higher calling. For audiences, the Games are a two-week diversion that comes along every four years and then leave town as abruptly as a travelling circus.
Besides, does anyone in this good burg really believe Toronto is capable of pulling off something as big as the Olympics? This is Accidental City, don’t forget, a place where it can take five years to build a streetcar line that extends fewer than 30 blocks. Even with an eight- or nine-year lead time, Toronto would be hard pressed to move so quickly. Indeed, the one thing city councillors hate above everything else is to have to make a decision. They will do anything to avoid it.
Then there’s Toronto’s police force. As the G20 fiasco revealed, the cops deal with public safety and security by assuming everyone in their way is a terrorist. Better they should stick to what they know best — paid duty, harassing jay-walkers and carding.
As for the private sector, Mayor John Tory’s hope that at least it will rise to the occasion and sponsor the $50 million to $60 million needed just for the bid seems naïve. Has the corporate world changed that much since Tory left it?
The question we face has nothing to do with sporting blow-outs, but with our inability to provide for our own needs without a catalyst such as the Olympics. Obviously, Torontonians care about making a good impression around the world, but for a city voted the world’s most liveable every couple of weeks, what more need be said?
Though Canada’s historic inferiority complex has left us a little too anxious for approval, all cities hope to use the Olympics to show themselves in the best light. But was Beijing’s prestige increased by the Games? Was Athens’, or even London’s? Not a bit.
Toronto still hasn’t come to terms with the fact it’s a big city, let alone one that should host the Games. Imagine the whining we heard about the Pan Am HOV lanes, multiplied 100 times. We’re reluctant to share the city among ourselves, let alone others.
Toronto isn’t ready — economically or emotionally — to host the Olympics.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/09/01/hume-let-the-games-begin-somewhere-else.html
By: Christopher Hume Urban Issues and Architecture, Published on Tue Sep 01 2015
The answer is as simple as the question: Should Toronto bid for the 2024 Olympics? No.
The Pan Am Games were a great success; everyone had a good time — even a few commuters were able to enjoy themselves. Even better, the event enhanced quality of life in the city and the Greater Toronto Area.
The legacy of the sweat fest includes state-of-the-art aquatic facilities, a velodrome and a much-needed student residence that began life as the venue for the athletes’ big sleep-over.
But let’s be honest; from the start the appeal of hosting the Pan Am Games was based on its ability to leverage public money to pay for infrastructure projects that would otherwise languish. At best, the athletics were an excuse.
Some cities have used these revenues to remake themselves. Some have squandered the opportunity and been burdened with enormous debt. Barcelona comes to mind; but so does Montreal. The former used Olympic cash to transform itself into one of Europe’s most urban centres. The latter ended up with little more than a crumbling stadium and a $1.6-billion bill that took 30 years to pay off.
On the other hand, compared with the excesses of the Potemkin Games in Beijing and Sochi, the London Olympics of 2012 seemed to restore an element of sanity to an event grown bloated, bureaucratic and corrupt.
Though the Olympics are justified on the basis of the nobility of sport, the fact is that such high-stakes competitions are just as likely to bring out the inner cheater in athletes as their sense of higher calling. For audiences, the Games are a two-week diversion that comes along every four years and then leave town as abruptly as a travelling circus.
Besides, does anyone in this good burg really believe Toronto is capable of pulling off something as big as the Olympics? This is Accidental City, don’t forget, a place where it can take five years to build a streetcar line that extends fewer than 30 blocks. Even with an eight- or nine-year lead time, Toronto would be hard pressed to move so quickly. Indeed, the one thing city councillors hate above everything else is to have to make a decision. They will do anything to avoid it.
Then there’s Toronto’s police force. As the G20 fiasco revealed, the cops deal with public safety and security by assuming everyone in their way is a terrorist. Better they should stick to what they know best — paid duty, harassing jay-walkers and carding.
As for the private sector, Mayor John Tory’s hope that at least it will rise to the occasion and sponsor the $50 million to $60 million needed just for the bid seems naïve. Has the corporate world changed that much since Tory left it?
The question we face has nothing to do with sporting blow-outs, but with our inability to provide for our own needs without a catalyst such as the Olympics. Obviously, Torontonians care about making a good impression around the world, but for a city voted the world’s most liveable every couple of weeks, what more need be said?
Though Canada’s historic inferiority complex has left us a little too anxious for approval, all cities hope to use the Olympics to show themselves in the best light. But was Beijing’s prestige increased by the Games? Was Athens’, or even London’s? Not a bit.
Toronto still hasn’t come to terms with the fact it’s a big city, let alone one that should host the Games. Imagine the whining we heard about the Pan Am HOV lanes, multiplied 100 times. We’re reluctant to share the city among ourselves, let alone others.
Tewder
Senior Member
Wow, Hume is having a downer day.
Hey, I can respect somebody who just comes right out and says 'we're incapable'. I just don't happen to believe it though. The PanAms should install some confidence. We accomplished what we did despite the mess at City Hall. Besides, it is unbelievably limiting to insist on defining Toronto by the inertia and stalemate of the last twenty to thirty years, when we have a much longer and more inspiring history of getting things done here. Yeah, it's easier to throw up our hands and walk away but with that attitude we're in for a hell of a lot more grief.
Hey, I can respect somebody who just comes right out and says 'we're incapable'. I just don't happen to believe it though. The PanAms should install some confidence. We accomplished what we did despite the mess at City Hall. Besides, it is unbelievably limiting to insist on defining Toronto by the inertia and stalemate of the last twenty to thirty years, when we have a much longer and more inspiring history of getting things done here. Yeah, it's easier to throw up our hands and walk away but with that attitude we're in for a hell of a lot more grief.
