1233 Queen East | ?m | 8s

[golodhendil]

Looking at practical matters, can you identify which high-traffic stations currently have space available at peak times to allocate to these smartly-increased retail outlets within TTC property?

Haven't people also been decrying the 'cathedral' stations planned for extensions and praising the smaller downtown stations (which they automatically assume are therefore cheaper)?

As I said, I am not suggesting that this model will necessarily work in Toronto given our culture and economics, nor do I pretend to have done a detailed economic analysis for it. From a casual observation, however, several of the outer stations such as Finch and Eglinton at least seems to have the space (if/if not the foot traffic) for new/renovated retail; even stations like Bloor seem to have a little bit of concourse-level "dead space" that can be utilized. This is also something that can be included in the planning for any future subway lines (the DRL?), perhaps to fill in some of those "cavernous" space in the cathedral stations.
Ads, on the other hand, don't require much additional space, but again that is going to depend on Torontonians' level of tolerance.

 

[Asterix]

As I said, I am not suggesting that this model will necessarily work in Toronto given our culture and economics, nor do I pretend to have done a detailed economic analysis for it. From a casual observation, however, several of the outer stations such as Finch and Eglinton at least seems to have the space (if/if not the foot traffic) for new/renovated retail; even stations like Bloor seem to have a little bit of concourse-level "dead space" that can be utilized.

Finch is already too tightly packed near peak time trying to get to the subway level past the Timmies.

Eglinton similarly has existing retail and you'd be hard-pressed to find any 'dead space' there in peak hours that could be turned over to more retail without negatively impacting passenger flow.

And I am at a complete loss as to where there would be excess space in peak time at Bloor.

 

[SlickFranky]

Who are the people buying clothing and purses at Finch? They're always blocking that corner browsing through stuff. Coffee I understand, flowers I get too...but silk scarves and handbags???

 

[golodhendil]

Finch is already too tightly packed near peak time trying to get to the subway level past the Timmies.

Eglinton similarly has existing retail and you'd be hard-pressed to find any 'dead space' there in peak hours that could be turned over to more retail without negatively impacting passenger flow.

And I am at a complete loss as to where there would be excess space in peak time at Bloor.

IIRC, right now at Finch the shops on the east side of the fare-paid area do not extend all the way to the north and south ends; similarly at Bloor, the kiosks in the escalator mezzanine on the Yonge line level do not extend all the way to the east and west ends (I know one of walls has the window of the control room so obviously that cannot be covered), and I don't seem to recall, even at rush hour, passengers walking into those spaces only to walk out again to avoid the existing kiosk. I don't know if there might be reasons these spaces cannot be used (eg, for fire safety, or for lineups overflowing from the washrooms?), but again, it's a casual observation. Also at Finch, the addition of the Tim Hortons outside the fare-paid area shows the spacewise it might still be possible to add a line of retail on one side of the corridor without significantly impacting passenger flow (without having any foot traffic/flow study, of course, and the spot of the Timmies does seem to be one of the wider stretches in the hallway due to the bend in the wall). Stations like Don Mills also have lots of "dead space", though I'm not familiar enough with its usage level to know whether retail is justified.

 

[nfitz]

Why have a blank wall when you can have community art? Or posters that showcase Toronto attractions?

Can you name other big cities in the world that don't have advertising? Even smaller cities in Canada seem to have advertising.

 

[TTC12]

Maybe this topic about the screens is being blown a bit out of proportion. I mean the screens are rather small, and I don't think contemplating the fact that; they might not have been included in the final trains is worth it, because they are a definite feature that has been installed, as seen in the unveiling.

The TTC Website states that there will 3 screens per car, that isn't really that much compared to the paper advertisements splattered all over the train. They have also stated that the screens are for announcements about delays, and other information relating to service.

I just think the screens are rather insignifcant to be used as advertising mediums. Would the TTC really invest money to get these screens up and running for advertisers? Even if they did, it would still be a while before we would see something like that, because I don't think they'll do this untill they have a large portion of the fleet.

 

[khris]

Has anyone seen a train in the stations yet?

 

[erikyow]

Has anyone seen a train in the stations yet?

The one train has been sitting at Wilson for over a week now. It hasn't even been moved as evidenced by the increasing amount of snow collecting on its roof (at least as of Monday evening at around 4:30p). As far as I can tell, they are doing stuff with it but the brief view I get from the subway shows guys perpetually shovelling the snow around it. The only sign of life from the train itself are the exterior (and occasionally interior) lights. So, not sure what they're doing with it, but putting it in motion doesn't seem to be a priority at the moment.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The one train has been sitting at Wilson for over a week now. It hasn't even been moved as evidenced by the increasing amount of snow collecting on its roof (at least as of Monday evening at around 4:30p). As far as I can tell, they are doing stuff with it but the brief view I get from the subway shows guys perpetually shovelling the snow around it. The only sign of life from the train itself are the exterior (and occasionally interior) lights. So, not sure what they're doing with it, but putting it in motion doesn't seem to be a priority at the moment.

Maybe they are doing a freezing cold test, to see how the train behaves or not behaves after staying outside in -20° weather. Trying for several tests to make sure they don't have the same problems with the current trains on very cold days.

 

[APTA-2048]

The one train has been sitting at Wilson for over a week now. It hasn't even been moved as evidenced by the increasing amount of snow collecting on its roof (at least as of Monday evening at around 4:30p). As far as I can tell, they are doing stuff with it but the brief view I get from the subway shows guys perpetually shovelling the snow around it. The only sign of life from the train itself are the exterior (and occasionally interior) lights. So, not sure what they're doing with it, but putting it in motion doesn't seem to be a priority at the moment.

That's the first train set that was delivered and unveiled in October. Apparently it's waiting to be sent back to Bombardier for work.

 

[gweed123]

Maybe they are doing a freezing cold test, to see how the train behaves or not behaves after staying outside in -20° weather. Trying for several tests to make sure they don't have the same problems with the current trains on very cold days.

Sitting outside in Thunder Bay wouldn't have been enough of a freezing cold test? ... If they can survive that, they can survive anything Toronto weather could throw at them.

 

[Agram]

Apparently it's waiting to be sent back to Bombardier for work

There are some major issues with this train and TTC does not want to take a risk in winter by putting it into service yet. Its going to be a while before it goes into service.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Looking at practical matters, can you identify which high-traffic stations currently have space available at peak times to allocate to these smartly-increased retail outlets within TTC property?

Haven't people also been decrying the 'cathedral' stations planned for extensions and praising the smaller downtown stations (which they automatically assume are therefore cheaper)?

Slightly off topic, however many downtown stations are too small/have too few entry/exit points for their passenger demand. Decrying cathedral stations which might only see a few thousand passangers in a day is a whole different matter.

If they could I'm sure the TTC would love to knock back the walls a couple four feet in all of it's downtown stations.

 

[Asterix]

Slightly off topic, however many downtown stations are too small/have too few entry/exit points for their passenger demand. Decrying cathedral stations which might only see a few thousand passangers in a day is a whole different matter.

But isn't the same line of thinking as those advocating building subways on the basis that there will quickly develop subway-level demand even though no one currently forecasts that? A 'cathedral' station now may have unused space, just as I'm sure downtown stations that are currently packed to the gills at rush hour were not always that way.

(Although for what it's worth, I don't think anyone has really explained what they mean by a 'cathedral' station. Is it one with excess horizontal space or one with a lot of empty vertical space? If the latter, then it is cheaper once they have dug the station box hole to leave it as open space when they are done, rather than fill it in. That leaves you with a 'cathedral' effect.)

If they could I'm sure the TTC would love to knock back the walls a couple four feet in all of it's downtown stations.

At the potential cost of hundreds of millions (or billion+) for Yonge/Bloor alone.

 

[drum118]

Most stations platforms cannot be widden as they are at their max width due to the stuctures that sits be side them.

The only way you can deal with that issue is to tear down the exist structures that are 10 floors plus tall and rebuilt everything all over again.

TTC can add all the station edges platforms they want, but until you come up with a system of moving riders out of the station as well in, platforms will be over crowded more than today.

The new trains will move more riders per hour than today trains, but as ridership increases and adding the 7th car, you are back to square one.