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To be creative is, in fact, Canadian (MARGARET ATWOOD)

Yet both Duceppe and Layton support investing in the arts.


Understand this, the government does not intervene in the arts, they fund the arts. They act like a patron by supporting artistic and creative endeavours.
 
Zero gov't intervention in the arts please.

Actually, zero gov't intervention in everything, is the ideal.

Btw, on the thestar.com quiz, Gilles Duceppe has my vote, with Jack Layton a close second.

And yet you preference Duceppe followed by Layton? Walking paradox right there...
 
Well, it's not like there's really that great a difference between the parties. Obviously, gov'ts exist to have influence, bureaucracy, etc.

My ideal gov't? An "elected dictatorship" that is given a 10 year mandate(one decade in power maximum allowed by the leader's cabinet); voted in by every single citizen over 18, capable of making an informed choice.

Funding for the arts? Does the gov't fund a convenience store owner directly through grants? An artist and a convenience store owner both provide a benefit to the community; why should only one of them continually lobby for, and receive, "grants?"
 
I suppose the Star's political-meter is poor metric to begin with. Although an "elected dictatorship" is a bigger paradox than a BQ/NDP supporter who believes in limited government. In general, political meters are pretty poor representations of, well, anything.
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I don't think that really represents me though. I know I got lumped into the economic center because I disagreed with a statement like "the business owner is always more important than the artists or writers", which is a ridiculously totalistic point of view and (IMO) neither indicative of right or left orientation. There are a bunch of questions like that which I would usually answer "depends" but was forced to pick one option or another.
 
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That's me. I think I'm a bit further right than this suggests, mostly because of the absurd absolutist questions.


Art is a public good, so I think it receiving some public support is appropriate. I'm not particularly opposed to cutting arts funding when the programs aren't working. I'm opposed to doing it for political, or ideological reasons as we saw with these cuts. Add to that the borderline censorious new law on film tax credits, which I found reprehensible.
 
My ideal gov't? An "elected dictatorship" that is given a 10 year mandate(one decade in power maximum allowed by the leader's cabinet); voted in by every single citizen over 18, capable of making an informed choice.

Kind of stupid to vote for a dictatorship, don't you think? And the part of making it mandatory to vote for a dictatorship is actually quite laughable.

Funding for the arts? Does the gov't fund a convenience store owner directly through grants? An artist and a convenience store owner both provide a benefit to the community; why should only one of them continually lobby for, and receive, "grants?"

If you can't see the difference between convenience stores and the arts, then there really is no point in trying to actually distinguish these things for you. Contemporary governments, governing bodies, governing aristocracies, kings, queens, governing religious bodies - all have had a history of supporting the arts dating back thousands of years.
 
Canadians have been supporting the arts through their taxes even before Dief was chief and the Canada Council was formed. I'd hate to think what era patron of the arts Tewder wants to turn the clock back to; given his notion that investing in the arts is "welfare" I'd guess the Victorian workhouse era.

... a further example of the cheap-trick wedge issue (and we thought the Conservatives had a monopoly on that). Despite the cleaver political spin Harper did not 'cancel' the funding of the arts, and nor would I. If you are reliant on the state for your livelihood, artist or not, then you are receiving welfare. Whether this is an effective approach or not is up to debate but US's characterization of 'welfare' as a distasteful notion is the height of elitism of the champagne-liberal variety. I've said it before that I feel that arts funding is better directed to infrastructure (theatres, performing arts venues, galleries, museums, competitions, festivals, history and heritage, national media, etc., etc.). Beyond that, arts funding starts to feel like political ideology (who gets funded or not) and subsidization of the mediocre as that which is worthy/compelling to some or any audience will thrive anyway.

Cutting through the extremist rhetoric:

The Other Side of the Arts Funding Issue


By Online Monday, October 6, 2008

by Branka Lapajne, Ph.D.
The Liberals and NDP claim that the Conservatives, particularly Stephen Harper, ’do not get it’ with regards to funding cultural groups. According to them, the majority of Canadians are opposed to the Conservative funding cuts. Yet when we see or hear protests against the funding cuts, it is not ordinary Canadians protesting, but rather those who have made a career of living off government grants.
While obscene or obnoxious so-called ’art’ being funded by taxpayers’ money, occasionally captures the headlines, there is a larger issue that is totally ignored or overlooked.

In both 2004/5 and 2005/6, the Canada Council for the Arts distributed just over $132 million to artists and organizations, which rose to $152.6 million in 2006/7. Since 2000, Parliament (or more accurately the Canadian taxpayer) has contributed over $1 billion to the Canada Council alone. This does not include the various other federal programmes for culture, which come under the auspices of the Department of Foreign Affairs or Heritage Canada, or the numerous provincial and municipal arts councils, which provide many millions in their own right. Not exactly negligible support, as many artists would have the public believe.

The arts community trots out the standard statistics on the economic impact of arts and culture in Canada, in order to justify the generous grants to this sector, or as evidence for the need for greater funding. In its 2004/5 report, the Canada Council estimated that the impact of arts and culture on the Canadian economy was $40 billion. This amount is repeated frequently by proponents for increased funding, as if the artists in receipt of these often generous government grants are responsible, collectively, for the revenues generated by the cultural sector. However, a simple examination of various statistics challenges this logic.

While the number of professional artists in Canada has risen from 120,000 in 2001, to over 137,000 in 2005, the number of recipients of council grants fell from 2,304 to 1,927 during the same period. It rose to 2,037 in the following year. In the three years from 2004 to 2007, about 6,000 artists shared $58,673,000! On an annual basis, these grant recipients make up barely 1.4 percent of the total number of Canada’s professional artists. Since most of these artists were not first time recipients, the actual number and percentage of professional artists in receipt of Canada Council grants during this period was consequently even less. Clearly these individuals cannot be responsible for the $40 billion generated by art and culture in Canada.

The world of the various arts councils is a cliquish, insular one. Many of the artists are selected by a committee of their peers, who a year or so later, are themselves grant recipients. With this revolving door policy, it is not surprising that a favoured number are regularly found in the arts councils’ annual reports. One could be forgiven assuming, from these records, that a few hundred people exclusively make up Canada’s cultural community, rather than the more than 130,000 who are classified as professional artists. (Of course, this figure does not include the untold artists, or writers who work away at their respective crafts, in addition to their primary employment.)

Though praised by their peers, supporters and friendly critics, one wonders how many of these individuals actually would be recognized by the general public for their so-called achievements. Furthermore, one would assume that if they are truly as good as they are reported to be, why is it that many of them have been at the cultural grants trough for years, if not decades. For some the accumulated grants from the Canada Council, Ontario Arts Council and Toronto Arts Council amount to nothing more than cultural welfare. If they are really so wonderful, they should be able to earn enough from their art or writing to no longer require this support, like the majority of professional artists.

The grants programmes should be a hand up, not a handout. One or two grants to assist a specific project could be justified, but to be attached to the cultural grant trough for life is blatant misuse or waste of taxpayers’ money. This continued, long-term, assistance appears to indicate that, maybe, they are not as good as their peers would have us believe and that the public does not really care for what they produce. If the general public is not willing to buy the end product, they should not be required to support this same work with their hard-earned tax dollars. Clearly a limit should be set on the number and value of grants that an individual can get from all the different arts councils. If they cannot succeed in their respective fields, then they should seriously reconsider their options, just like the rest of the population.

Art, literature, etc., has no colour or race. Individuals are assessed on their work, not on their racial origins. Yet despite this, the Canada Council has for years provided funds through its ’Equity’ programme: ’supporting Canadian artists of African, Asian, Middle Eastern, Latin American or mixed racial heritage, and their artistic practices.’ Since the regular grants have never been exclusively for the ’visible majority’, the equity programme does not really promote equality among Canadian artists.

In addition to the direct support provided by the various arts councils, a number of Toronto artists have the added benefit of living in cooperative housing. These artist co-ops are supported by different levels of government with money from the same taxpayers who contribute to the arts councils, and provide apartments at below-market rates. Just another way some individuals manage to take advantage of hardworking taxpayers.

For centuries, wealthy patrons commissioned artists and composers to produce their masterpieces. This system generated incredible works of art and music. When the patronage system eventually collapsed, mostly because artists found the demands of their wealthy patrons too restrictive, many encountered enormous financial hardships. Some artists, whose works command millions of dollars today, rarely sold anything during their lifetimes.

Eventually, many artists began to make a living from their work. However, in the mid to late 1950s, politicians assumed the role of patrons of the arts, with the use of public funds. One wonders if their primary concern was to give a necessary boost to struggling artists, to enable them to get exposure and thus develop a successful independent career. Or did they wish to simply create another welfare programme for those unable to succeed on their own?

Most Canadians do not or would not object to government support of such organizations as symphony orchestras and ballet companies. The necessity to keep such entities viable is almost universally accepted. Nor would they object to providing individuals with a start in their careers. However, if they knew that many recipients (artists, writers, performers) of these generous government and Canada Council grants have received them for years, or even decades, they might question the purpose of this financial largesse. They might even urge Stephen Harper to cut more funding, rather than less, and take these artists off their funding life-support.
 
While the number of professional artists in Canada has risen from 120,000 in 2001, to over 137,000 in 2005, the number of recipients of council grants fell from 2,304 to 1,927 during the same period. It rose to 2,037 in the following year. In the three years from 2004 to 2007, about 6,000 artists shared $58,673,000! On an annual basis, these grant recipients make up barely 1.4 percent of the total number of Canada’s professional artists

A fair number of those grants go to arts organizations. The author suggests that every recipient is an individual person.

The arts community trots out the standard statistics on the economic impact of arts and culture in Canada, in order to justify the generous grants to this sector, or as evidence for the need for greater funding.

Every recipient of grants from governments makes the same type of presentation to justify continued funding. Everything from aerospace to education states their case in a similar manner. In this respect, there is nothing unique about what artists or arts organizations are doing.


In its 2004/5 report, the Canada Council estimated that the impact of arts and culture on the Canadian economy was $40 billion. This amount is repeated frequently by proponents for increased funding, as if the artists in receipt of these often generous government grants are responsible, collectively, for the revenues generated by the cultural sector. However, a simple examination of various statistics challenges this logic.

Clearly these individuals cannot be responsible for the $40 billion generated by art and culture in Canada.

For someone holding a Ph.d, the author appears to mislead. No one has ever stated that grants from governments have directly generated $40 billion in contributions to the economy. That is why one does not see a direct quote suggesting such a clear link.

The world of the various arts councils is a cliquish, insular one.

Some editorializing here.

One could be forgiven assuming, from these records, that a few hundred people exclusively make up Canada’s cultural community, rather than the more than 130,000 who are classified as professional artists.

One could be forgiven for thinking the same of Ph.d's as well, but I don't see this one arguing for funding cuts to university research grants.

Art, literature, etc., has no colour or race. Individuals are assessed on their work, not on their racial origins. Yet despite this, the Canada Council has for years provided funds through its ’Equity’ programme: ’supporting Canadian artists of African, Asian, Middle Eastern, Latin American or mixed racial heritage, and their artistic practices.’ Since the regular grants have never been exclusively for the ’visible majority’, the equity programme does not really promote equality among Canadian artists.

Silly Canada Council, trying to support diversity in the arts. Must have to do with some multicultural policy I heard about somewhere.

In addition to the direct support provided by the various arts councils, a number of Toronto artists have the added benefit of living in cooperative housing. These artist co-ops are supported by different levels of government with money from the same taxpayers who contribute to the arts councils, and provide apartments at below-market rates. Just another way some individuals manage to take advantage of hardworking taxpayers.

Artists are now accused of taking advantage of hardworking taxpayers money. I wonder if university professors in publicly funded universities who conduct genealogical research as a profession can be accused of the same thing?


For centuries, wealthy patrons commissioned artists and composers to produce their masterpieces. This system generated incredible works of art and music.

However, in the mid to late 1950s, politicians assumed the role of patrons of the arts, with the use of public funds. One wonders if their primary concern was to give a necessary boost to struggling artists, to enable them to get exposure and thus develop a successful independent career. Or did they wish to simply create another welfare programme for those unable to succeed on their own?

The public funds were derived from taxes, and one reason why those wealthy patrons could no longer fund the small number of select artists was due to such things as the rise of a middle class and taxation. So yes, the government has become a patron of the arts because arts have been deemed as being valuable to the good of society and to the expression of ideas.

Eventually, many artists began to make a living from their work.

Before the 1950's? Maybe the author should check out how many Canadian artists made a living off their art during the depression.

Most Canadians do not or would not object to government support of such organizations as symphony orchestras and ballet companies.

Here, the author gets selective as to what ought to be publicly funded - not doubt because the author personally favours these forms over others.

The necessity to keep such entities viable is almost universally accepted.

But our brave author dares not step in and explain exactly why these are universally accepted as so claimed.


They might even urge Stephen Harper to cut more funding, rather than less, and take these artists off their funding life-support.

And then one can do the same thing for university professors who have been deemed as contributing nothing productive to Canadian society, and who are also publicly funded - including those possessing tenure.
 
A fair number of those grants go to arts organizations. The author suggests that every recipient is an individual person.

The author is making an attempt to quantify why the proposed cuts to arts funding did not constitute the attack on Canadian art and artists that they were being portrayed as by special interest groups.



Silly Canada Council, trying to support diversity in the arts. Must have to do with some multicultural policy I heard about somewhere.

Thank you, in one sentence you manage to demonstrate exactly why many believe the government should not be funding the arts in the way it does. Provide the venues, provide the vehicles, provide the infrastructure but do NOT politicize the arts in Canada. I do not pay taxes to give the government the right or power to insideously decide that only the arts that support their 'policy' get funding. That's an erosion of the very freedoms that the arts are supposed to represent, not to mention an abuse of taxpayers' money.
 
Tewder: You, not I, referred to a "welfare-reliant arts system" as if welfare is distasteful. And a $45 million cut from the Government's arts budget is a $45 million cut, despite your claim that: "Harper did not 'cancel' the funding of the arts".
 
The author is making an attempt to quantify why the proposed cuts to arts funding did not constitute the attack on Canadian art and artists that they were being portrayed as by special interest groups.

The trouble is that the author is splitting hairs and employing an unexplained and subjective defence of certain forms supported by that author.

Thank you, in one sentence you manage to demonstrate exactly why many believe the government should not be funding the arts in the way it does. Provide the venues, provide the vehicles, provide the infrastructure but do NOT politicize the arts in Canada. I do not pay taxes to give the government the right or power to insideously decide that only the arts that support their 'policy' get funding. That's an erosion of the very freedoms that the arts are supposed to represent, not to mention an abuse of taxpayers' money.

The providing venues and vehicles is itself public support. If you look at the last set of cuts made, many where essentially just that: cuts to venues and vehicles.

As for politicizing art, the government makes an effort to help promote a fact of the country that is defined through the term multiculturalism. But it is not the only rationale for issuing grants. You may not remember it (but I do) when the issuing of arts grants had a strong tendency not to reflect the increasing cultural diversity of the country. If anything, trying to fund that richness of diversity should be viewed as something of a success. It is imperfect, but it now includes artists and forms that were once not recognized as creative or artistic.

It's not too much of a stretch to see that support of the arts has a long political link as well. All you have to do is to go back over hundreds - if not thousands - of years and look at the power brokers of the past to see not just the artists they supported, but why they supported them. Political power and support, and the arts, have a long history.

On the basis of the sentence in question, you have not said why stated why arts should not be supported by government. What is so unpalatable about it?
 
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That's me. I think I'm a bit further right than this suggests, mostly because of the absurd absolutist questions.

Wow, I am actually closer to the centre than you....who'd have thunk it? It's that authoritarian streak in me....why can't people just believe that I will be an excellent benevolent dictator?
 
I don't know if it is so surprising that I am moderately libertarian.
 

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