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The USA-Canada Border: Passports needed for all after June 1st?

cacruden said:
Yes, the kid in Gitmo was taken from Afghanistan. And for those that were pushing for Geneva conventions on prisoners to be adhered to - those would allow for the prisoners of war to be held without war crimes trials for 6 months following the end of hostilities (i.e. formal agreement ending conflict) - which has not happened yet.
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Given that at worst he was a child soldier, does international law even allow you to hold him as a POW?
 
nfitz said:
Given that at worst he was a child soldier, does international law even allow you to hold him as a POW?
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International law is murkier than some would suggest. The Geneva and Hague conventions to begin with only applied to a uniformed force and where there is reciprocity. Armies tend to have gentleman's agreements on this stuff. A good example of this was the Falklands war. Both sides treated POWs really well. The enemies we have today are a different beast. When the Taliban start beheading the prisoners they take all bets are off.

That said, I do believe Khadr should be repatriated....they should charge the mother instead; treason, child abuse, material support to banned organizations, etc. There's quite a few crimes I think she committed.

Back on topic, fears of rendition are over-blown especially now that Obama is in office. I think its highly unlikely that anybody is going to be bundled up and carted away to some third world prison.
 
kEiThZ said:
That said, I do believe Khadr should be repatriated....they should charge the mother instead; treason, child abuse, material support to banned organizations, etc. There's quite a few crimes I think she committed.
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Agreed, and I'm pretty sure what our justice system will find... Can we still execute traitors?
 
Tewder said:
Agreed, and I'm pretty sure what our justice system will find... Can we still execute traitors?
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I don't believe in capital punishment, but I would have no problem with stripping the citizenship of someone who does not feel or is openly hostile to the very idea of this country. I mean this woman went on national TV and went on and on about how bad Canada was. Why are you here if you Canada is so bad? Give up your citizenship and move back from whence you came.
 
kEiThZ said:
I would imagine badly in the beginning as truck drivers have to get used to carrying passports.
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but after they all have passports, will the new system cause more delay than what was already in place?
 
kEiThZ said:
I don't believe in capital punishment, but I would have no problem with stripping the citizenship of someone who does not feel or is openly hostile to the very idea of this country. I mean this woman went on national TV and went on and on about how bad Canada was. Why are you here if you Canada is so bad? Give up your citizenship and move back from whence you came.
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I kind of agree with the sentiment, but that would create two classes of citizens: Canadian-born citizens who could diss the country as much as they want, and foreign-born citizens who would be at risk of losing their citizenship should they do so.
 
kEiThZ said:
I don't believe in capital punishment, but I would have no problem with stripping the citizenship of someone who does not feel or is openly hostile to the very idea of this country. I mean this woman went on national TV and went on and on about how bad Canada was. Why are you here if you Canada is so bad? Give up your citizenship and move back from whence you came.
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The only way citizenship can be revoked is if the person obtained it dishonestly, and it should stay that way. A government being able to "revoke" someone's citizenship smacks of a South American banana republic ruled by military uniform-wearing colonels. Besides, the lady you mentioned is always free to renounce her passport and move elsewhere.
 
kEiThZ said:
I don't think it's that big a deal. Why is it that Americans and Canadians take it for granted that they can go ANOTHER COUNTRY without a passport?
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It's not that uncommon, the following countries you don't need a passport to get between (wikipedia), aside from all the Schengen countries.

  • United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland: Citizens of the UK and Ireland do not require a passport to travel between those two countries (see Common Travel Area). Other EEA nationals must carry a national ID card or a passport. All other nationals require passports.
  • The CA-4 countries: Citizens of Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, and Nicaragua do not require passports to travel between or among any of the four countries. A national ID card (cédula) is sufficient for entry. In addition, the CA-4 agreement implemented the Central American Single Visa (Visa Única Centroamericana).
  • CARICOM countries issue a CARICOM passport to their citizens, and as of June 2009, eligible nationals in participating countries will be permitted to use the CARICOM travel card which provides for intra-community travel without a passport.
  • Nordic countries -- Denmark, including the Faroe Islands and Greenland, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden: The Nordic Passport Union means that Nordic citizens need only any valid identity card (which is often needed inside each country anyway). They joined the larger Schengen Agreement region in 1997, where a national identity card with citizenship is needed. The Nordic Passport Union is still valid for Nordic citizens.
  • Lebanon and Syria: Lebanese citizens entering Syria do not require passports to enter Syria, if carrying Lebanese ID cards. Similarly, Syrian citizens do not require passports to enter Lebanon, if carrying Syrian ID cards.
  • India, Nepal, and Bhutan: Passports are not needed by citizens of India and Nepal to travel within each other's country, but some identification is required for border crossing. Only Indians do not require passports for travelling in Bhutan while Bhutanese can travel with their citizenship identity cards.
  • Croatia does not require passports of citizens of the member states of European Union and Bosnia and Herzegovina who have national ID cards. Bosnia and Herzegovina, Italy, Hungary, Montenegro and Slovenia do not require Croatian citizens to have a passport, only Croatian ID cards.
  • Serbia does not require passports of citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina who have B&H ID cards. Bosnia and Herzegovina does not require Serbian citizens to have passports, only Serbian ID cards.
  • Citizens of Serbia and citizens of Montenegro may travel between the two countries with national ID cards.
  • Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania comprise the East African Community. Each country may issue, to an eligible citizen, an East African passport. Those passports are recognised by only the three countries, and are used for travel between or among those countries. The requirements for eligibility are less rigorous than are the requirements for national passports used for other international travel.
  • The member states of the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) do not require passports for their citizens traveling within the community. National ID cards are sufficient. The member states are Benin, Burkina Faso, Cape Verde, Côte d'Ivoire, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Mali, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Sierra Leone, and Togo.
  • Russia and some former Soviet Union republics: The participating countries may require an internal passport, which is the equivalent of a national ID card, rather than a passport.
  • Many Central American and South American nationals can travel within their respective regional economic zones, such as Mercosur and the Andean Community of Nations, or on a bilateral basis (e.g., between Chile and Peru, between Brazil and Chile), without passports, presenting instead their national ID cards, or, for short stays, their voter-registration cards. This travel must be done overland rather than by air. There are plans to extend these rights to all of South America under a Union of South American Nations.
  • Turkey does not require a passport for citizens of several European countries holding national ID cards. Citizens of Greece must have the new ID card, which has the holder's details in both the Greek and the Latin alphabets.
  • Citizens of the Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf countries need only national ID cards (also referred to as civil ID cards) to cross the borders of council countries.
  • Italy and Vatican City: Italy does not require passports for travel to Vatican City, and Vatican City does not require passports for travel to Italy. The only way to get to Vatican City is through Italy, inasmuch as Vatican City is surrounded by Rome, so Italian immigration requirements are de facto those of Vatican City. The Vatican issues its own passports to officials of the Roman Catholic Church who reside in or near the Vatican, and who work there. Each Pope is always given Vatican Passport No. 1.[citation needed]
  • Italy and the Republic of San Marino: San Marino is a landlocked country between the Emilia-Romagna and Marche regions of Italy, and there are no border control at all between the two countries.
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While Canada/US doesn't have National ID cards (too many paranoid people out there), the drivers license/birth cirtiificate/citizenship card combo was the equivelant (but had security issues)


The good news is that we will still be able to cross at land and sea with enhanced drivers licenses/ID cards (for all the nuts out there... it not only has your citizenship info, it also has RFID!! oh nos!)
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/whti-ivho/edl-pcp-eng.html
 
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kEiThZ said:
Back on topic, fears of rendition are over-blown especially now that Obama is in office. I think its highly unlikely that anybody is going to be bundled up and carted away to some third world prison.
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Kind of OT, but on the issue of the behaviour of the border/custom people: Last week I was passing through the preclearance at Pearson after a 2-hr stopover on my way back to Boston from a conference in Victoria. I was of course having my student visa and passport with me, and as an East Asian I would suppose I'm not of the generally considered "high suspicion" group. The officer asked me where I live, and assuming he meant where's my home, I said "Toronto".
"Where are you going?"
"To Boston."
"What are you doing there?"
"Going back to my university (pointing to my student visa again), from a conference in Victoria.."
"What school are you in?"
"XXXX (which anyone would know is in Boston).."
"So where do you live?"
"Toronto.... "
"How can you be going to school there if you live in Toronto?"
".....:mad: Well I mean I lived in Toronto, obviously I am in Boston now." (in retrospect I should have said "My home is in Toronto.")
"Well I didn't ask you where you're living in the past or in the future, I'm asking where you're living now."
"Well yea, ok, Boston... @#$^%*@^@$#"

Of course, one anecdote doesn't say much, but I guess the attitude of the frontline people don't change that easily even after the administration has changed.
 
New Border Crossing Regulations Effective June 1st...

Everyone: I have not used the Internet or posted much anything lately but this info on the new US-Canada border crossing regulations caught me by surprise.

I found out about these rules thru a topic posted at http://www.Railroad.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=46 section about these new rules effective June 1st-an article written in the Toronto Globe and Mail dated 3/25 with the title "Glory Days of Open Border: Gone?" caught my eye here and generated a interesting debate about crossing the border by train - the NYC-Toronto jointly operated Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada Maple Leaf would be strongly affected by this rule-maybe making the Customs inspection delays stretch to the intolerable extent causing a loss of ridership maybe even threatening the Maple Leaf's existence altogether. Note topic title "Crossing the US-Canada Border" on the first Amtrak page there.

I now wonder if having an enhanced drivers license would be enough-even though the NYSDMV says that it would be even with these new regulations
See: www.nysdmv.com/edl-main.htm about these NYS licenses. I am considering strongly getting one-provided I can use this crossing the border.

If these rules go into effect as mentioned on June 1st crossing the border those first weeks may be a huge problem to say the least.

I noticed someone mentioned the paranoia in the USA concerning the border-I do agree noticing the attitude by US DHS's Janet Napolitano-which was definitely disheartening to me - I feel that she is equaling the US-Canada border to the problem-plagued US-Mexico border - she is from Arizona in case anyone did not know - which as we all know is totally different knowing the historic ties among other things between the USA and Canada.

I am for making crossing the USA-Canada border as seamless as can be but those glory days could be behind us for good thanks to the Customs/Immigration attitudes between the two countries.

I remember my first trips back between 1979-1983 to WNY and Southern Ontario and I recall things like in those first years was to go to NF or Fort Erie to fill up the car with cheaper Canadian gasoline taking advantage of the exchange rate and perhaps stopping at those Chinese restaraunts in FE.

I also recall being set straight on the attitudes of WNY and Southern Ontario concerning these ties between them-I remember asking "That's another country right there though?" and I was told and found out about the close relationship between them. I later understood after crossing the border a few times for myself. I also remember that WNY and Southern Ontario have a better border relationship then Michigan and Ontario do.

I hope that these new regulations do NOT ruin the historic ties between our countries because of bureaucracy and paranoia in our Governments.

-Insight and Commentary from Long Island Mike-
 
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