News   Apr 26, 2024
 1.8K     4 
News   Apr 26, 2024
 412     0 
News   Apr 26, 2024
 1K     1 

The Hypocrisy of the International Community, Re: Russia

I dunno man.. tens of thousands died when Belgrade was flattened, and just 9 years ago in NATO's illegal strikes, civilian trains, TV stations, the CHINESE EMBASSY were bombed, all for what? Lies that propagated from the mouths of such degenerates as Clinton, Holbrooke and Albright? No thanks, nobody gave a shit about human lives then, it was indiscriminate bombing.. precision military targest MY ASS!

I truly believe for the United States' behaviour in the last few decades, they will get their comeuppance in one swift blow.

I don't see how the Kosovo campaign was illegal. The only reason there was no explicit UN authorization was because the Russians wanted to give the Serbs a blank check in the region, and would veto any resolution. NATO acted to protect the security and stability of Europe. The civilian trains and TV stations....the Serbs deliberately located their military units in or near those facilities...just like Hezbollah firing rockets from apartment buildings in 2006. In fact, during the Bosnia campaign, they even used a Canadian military officer (there as a UN peacekeeper) as a human shield. All those actions were illegal under the laws of armed conflict. The only mistake we can discuss was the Chinese embassy getting hit, a real tragedy, but one that doesn't change the validity of the intervention. I still see nothing wrong in NATO intervention to prevent the Serbs from committing another genocide...I notice you don't mention their handiwork in Bosnia.

You love to criticize US foreign policy. Fine. But let's not leave out Russian foreign policy. The are building the Iranians a nuclear reactor. And now they are going to fuel it too. Just keep that in mind, if Tel Aviv ever goes poof..... They are one of the world's most prolific arms exporters. At least the US tends to sell its weapons to mostly developed countries, and in small but expensive numbers. The Russians sell large quantities of advanced weaponry at firesale prices to unstable regions throughout the world. And we won't even talk about the Russian black market. And now S.Ossetia and Abkhazia.....I love how they hand out citizenship to people who don't reside in their territories and then move in to claim they are protecting them.....Yet the US is worse? Please. It's not like the yanks are handing out citizenship across the Rio Grande and then moving in to protect "Americans".

Would you also criticize the billions they give in aid? Somehow I never saw anyone asking the oil rich Russians for billions in aid after the Asian Tsunami. But people automatically just expect the US to donate, no questions asked. Yes, their govt is stingy with ODA, but if you add up the charity donations, the scholarships for foreign students, technical assistance, disaster relief assistance, the security guarantees, etc and ODA outflows, the yanks come out as some of the most generous people on Earth. Do the Russians even have an aid policy? And I dont hear any Russian oligarch starting an equivalent to the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation but I do hear that they like to buy English soccer teams. Even now, the US was among the first to send aid to Georgia. Will the Russians ever compensate the Georgians for the damage they did?

It is amazing that people that wish for the demise of the US dont give a thought to the consequence. If the US wasnt around and there was a major disaster who would help? Tell me. Who? The Europeans? Please. They've been trying to get a heavy airlift pool together for over a decade of only 12 aircraft. That's one USAF squadron. The Russians? They can't see past the tip of their nose. And they are by far not a selfless people. I have never heard of one generous Russian aid offer that wasn't about their strategic interest in the near abroad. The Chinese? They'll give you aid, lots of it. And then they'll demand that you give Chinese companies free reign to run your economy....their neo-colonization of Africa is an excellent example of this, which some African leaders have said is worse than what the Europeans did.

What other country in history has gone out of its way to rebuild its attackers like the US? Germany, Japan and now Afghanistan. Many here will cite Iraq and Vietnam. Are they perfect? No. But we should give them credit where is due. Or maybe, we should counsel the US to follow the Russian example with Chechnya....that way there is no one left to complain about their actions. Their scorched earth policy (especially in Grozny) never got much western media coverage. But a handful prisoners are mistreated at Abu Gharib and somehow that becomes the ultimate judgment on US foreign policy. It's always convenient when you fake democracy, "elect" a KGB agent to both executive posts and give him the power to control the media. They'll say plenty of nice things about you and about the glorious people you lead. Putin looks like a tough SOB when he flies in on a fighter jet and threatens to crush minorities in the Far East. GWB is the butt of late night tv when he lands on aircraft carrier with a giant "Mission accomplished" banner behind him. You tell me, who is more dangerous? What about the Chinese in Tibet or Xinjiang? Heck, what about the entire Arab world and their expulsion of their jewish minorities. Yet, its all the fault of the US...right? The Americans are still by far the worst in history, right?

You criticize their government looking after their self-interests. I say hooray for that and only wish our government watched out for Canada more instead of cowering in a corner. But that would mean making courageous decisions, ie standing up to the US sometimes (softwood lumber, arctic oil exploration), or even working with the US sometimes (we said no to assisting in the rebuilding of Iraq...not the war, but reconstruction), undertaking independent foreign policy initiatives, etc which would require significantly larger budgets for aid, diplomacy and military activities.

Is the US a perfect model. Certainly not. But I will take them any day over the fake democracy of Russia or the "one party democracy" of China. The US is still the only country in the world and in history which can go from slavery, to segregation to an electable black presidential candidate in a handful of generations. For all our talk about multi-culturalism, here in Canada, do you think we'll ever have a non-white PM? Not in my lifetime...and I am a young guy.

And Filip, as great as the Russian people are, tell me...will they ever elect a Chechen? I thought so.
 
Do not even start about the Yugoslav wars, history is written by victors, and Serbia clearly didn't win.

Serbs were murdered in the thousands in Bosnia, and 200 000 Serbs were kicked out of Croatia in operation storm, something the disgusting western media will never talk about, but something Serbia and Russia will never forget. Realize one thing, nothing is as black and white as you seem to make it in your posts, nothing ever is. Read history from both sides before you're going to try and teach ME a Balkanite about my own history.

Thanks, and good riddance.
 
I dunno man.. tens of thousands died when Belgrade was flattened, and just 9 years ago in NATO's illegal strikes, civilian trains, TV stations, the CHINESE EMBASSY were bombed, all for what? Lies that propagated from the mouths of such degenerates as Clinton, Holbrooke and Albright? No thanks, nobody gave a shit about human lives then, it was indiscriminate bombing.. precision military targest MY ASS!

I truly believe for the United States' behaviour in the last few decades, they will get their comeuppance in one swift blow.

You're making no sense. You are angry about civilian deaths in one city, but then actively argue for the necessity of civilian deaths in other cities in other countries. Sounds vengeful and nothing more, really.

As for "one swift blow," planning something?

Read history from both sides before you're going to try and teach ME a Balkanite about my own history.

Clearly something you should do as well. Being born in a place does not make you a natural expert on its history as you appear to assume.
 
You're making no sense. You are angry about civilian deaths in one city, but then actively argue for the necessity of civilian deaths in other cities in other countries. Sounds vengeful and nothing more, really.

As for "one swift blow," planning something?



Clearly something you should do as well. Being born in a place does not make you a natural expert on its history as you appear to assume.

Yes it does, I've lived in that history, you guys just read about it. Clearly didn't really understand it either.

One swift blow? Come on, be realistic, how many nations/peoples want the USA to collapse.. I can name a couple just in Europe.
 
The decline of The US would be beneficial mostly to Russia and Germany and maybe France.


They could re-make them selves.


Germany maybe will be seen more then being a place of Good Engineering and Nazism.

Russia would be able to influence the entire former Soviet bloc.
 
Yes it does, I've lived in that history, you guys just read about it. Clearly didn't really understand it either.

One swift blow? Come on, be realistic, how many nations/peoples want the USA to collapse.. I can name a couple just in Europe.

You've lived all of Balkan history? I don't think so. Events are much more extensive than your own personal experience. You have to take them into account.

As for being realistic, I am. I'm asking what "swift blow" are making reference to? To be sure, such a reference is, in fact, an excellent example of being unrealistic on your part. And so what if a bunch of people want to see the collapse of the United States? Their wish is being defined by their own petty localized hatreds. Reasonable people look to a change for the better, not destruction. You appear to be quite focussed on wishing for the suffering of others because you possess hatred for entire nations and the people in them. Why else would one wish for their destruction?
 
You've lived all of Balkan history? I don't think so. Events are much more extensive than your own personal experience. You have to take them into account.

As for being realistic, I am. I'm asking what "swift blow" are making reference to? To be sure, such a reference is, in fact, an excellent example of being unrealistic on your part. And so what if a bunch of people want to see the collapse of the United States? Their wish is being defined by their own petty localized hatreds. Reasonable people look to a change for the better, not destruction. You appear to be quite focussed on wishing for the suffering of others because you possess a hatred for entire nations and the people in them.

We're not talking about old Balkan history, but recent events, that I have witnessed first hand for the most part. My hatred for the United States is that they say they stand for freedom and justice, while in fact doing the exact opposite around the world. I can say that Russia by far has higher moral grounds and much more of a backbone.

The United States are nothing but a shadow of what they once were, and I hope as the world gets weary of their cowboy/bullying politics, their significance will continue to wane until one day the states themselves turn against each other. That will be the day, finally no more American hegemony, and peace in the Middle East, Balkans, Caucasus (pick region here)....
 
We're not talking about old Balkan history, but recent events, that I have witnessed first hand for the most part. My hatred for the United States is that they say they stand for freedom and justice, while in fact doing the exact opposite around the world. I can say that Russia by far has higher moral grounds and much more of a backbone.

The United States are nothing but a shadow of what they once were, and I hope as the world gets weary of their cowboy/bullying politics, their significance will continue to wane until one day the states themselves turn against each other. That will be the day, finally no more American hegemony, and peace in the Middle East, Balkans, Caucasus (pick region here)....

Russia, and its former Soviet Union incarnation, was and is not above bullying and indiscriminate bombing. Maybe you can provide some examples as to how the Russian government can claim a higher moral ground or backbone? If the "backbone" is in reference to its handling of Georgia and Chechnya, then what distinguishes it from the United States?

Wars, ethic hatred, revenge killings, mass murders, and the like have all existed long before the United States. Even a cursory understanding of history would inform you of this. With attitudes driven by hatred, these things are going to continue existing for a very long time. And since you've admitted your own hatred, you are part of the problem.
 
Yes it does, I've lived in that history, you guys just read about it. Clearly didn't really understand it either.

One swift blow? Come on, be realistic, how many nations/peoples want the USA to collapse.. I can name a couple just in Europe.

You think we read about it eh....

My closest colleague at work is half croat/half serb and served as a peacekeeper in Bosnia. My director was directly involved in the Medak pocket and Bihac. I assure you the stories they tell are not made up. I have numerous colleagues who can recall some gruesome stuff. Some have suffered PTSD from what they saw. I am pretty sure you can't make that up.

Not all of it was done by Serbs, of course. But they definitely were not innocent. You hold the US to a high moral standard and won't accept any fault from them. Yet somehow when the Russians or Serbs do it, it's all the "media".

And a funny anecdote from director who was a captain at the time....many of the Serbian insurgents he came across were from the Canadian diaspora.....I think that says a lot.
 
We're not talking about old Balkan history, but recent events, that I have witnessed first hand for the most part.

So somehow the events you have experienced personally, define the entire truth of the span of recent conflicts in the Balkans?

My hatred for the United States is that they say they stand for freedom and justice, while in fact doing the exact opposite around the world.

They look out for their self interest. You will find that most countries do the same. Isn't Russia looking out for her own self-interest in Georgia. Yet it's okay when they violate the boundaries of a sovereign state, right? You can't say one is right and one is wrong. If NATO's actions in Kosovo were wrong, then Russia's meddling in Georgia is wrong too.

I can say that Russia by far has higher moral grounds and much more of a backbone.

One word: Grozny. The Russians just don't leave any evidence behind. It's kinda hard to interview victims when all you have are their ashes. You want to talk about moral authority. Why is it that the Russians are threatening their neighbours? They are threatening to invade Ukraine and are threatening nuclear strikes against Poland the Czech republic. For all the faults of the US, they've haven't military threatened their immediate neighbours in over a century.

The United States are nothing but a shadow of what they once were, and I hope as the world gets weary of their cowboy/bullying politics, their significance will continue to wane until one day the states themselves turn against each other. That will be the day, finally no more American hegemony, and peace in the Middle East, Balkans, Caucasus (pick region here)....

You can keep dreaming. The amazing thing about the US is that they can achieve something if they put their mind to it. Land on the moon...sure in a decade. Need to win a world war...sure...discover atomic weapons. Need to increase crop yield four fold....sure...genetic engineering. Need to communicate....first invent the telephone, then the internet....I wouldn't bet against the US. I assure you that every US policy maker and strategic analyst understand the dire straits their in.

The Americans aren't dumb. They know that high energy costs weaken their economy and strengthen their adversaries, like Russia, Iran, etc. Mark my words, in short order, ridding itself of dependence on foreign oil will be priority one. And I don't doubt that they will do it....see the challenges above.....And when that happens, Russia will have a real problem on its hands, as that tech spreads to other countries. A declining population with a poor industrial base, no real services sector is one step away from becoming irrelevant. If it was't for oil and gas, they would be nobody. They better hope that all this politicking doesn't stiffen US resolve to end the era of oil and gas.

As for peace in the Middle East, Balkans, Caucasus. If it wasn't for the US it would be worse. The Iranians and the Saudis would be going at it, the Arab World and the Israelis would probably go nuclear and the Balkans would be dying its river red with blood as the Serbs quickly move to restore the glory of the old Serb empire. It's American aid money, and military might that keeps them from making genocide a social norm in those regions.
 
You think we read about it eh....

My closest colleague at work is half croat/half serb and served as a peacekeeper in Bosnia. My director was directly involved in the Medak pocket and Bihac. I assure you the stories they tell are not made up. I have numerous colleagues who can recall some gruesome stuff. Some have suffered PTSD from what they saw.

PTSD -> operational exhaustion -> battle fatigue -> shell shock
 
One word: Grozny. The Russians just don't leave any evidence behind. It's kinda hard to interview victims when all you have are their ashes. You want to talk about moral authority. Why is it that the Russians are threatening their neighbours? They are threatening to invade Ukraine and are threatening nuclear strikes against Poland the Czech republic. For all the faults of the US, they've haven't military threatened their immediate neighbours in over a century.


exactly, they don't threaten. they just invade.

quick question, do you know what those so called "freedom fighters" do to russian soldiers in chechnya?
 
quick question, do you know what those so called "freedom fighters" do to russian soldiers in chechnya?

Whatever they do, would you allow the Russian kind of reprisal if that was a US soldier instead, and the setting was Iraq?

We have laws governing armed conflict for a reason. If everyone here wishes that the US, Canada, UK, the West, should abide them, then the same goes for the Russians. It doesn't matter if its Chechnya.
 

Back
Top