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The Beer Store: Political Reasons to Keep/Kill It

The Scottish/Presbyterian influence is still showing its hand in Ontario's alcohol distribution. Toronto has changed A LOT in the past 30-40 years. My Irish mom's impression of TO at that time was that it was very "Scotch", dour, no fun, and closed on Sunday. You couldn't get a drink anywhere on a Sunday; nothing was open. You had to go to church and then stay home, apparently.
The selling of beer will start to loosen up soon enough...as long as people keep agitating for change.
 
I would have thought your Irish mom would have been aware there is no race/nationality "Scotch" only, ironically, a tasty alcoholic beverage.
 
newearthling said:
Yes, obviously, but that was the colloquial name for the Scottish.
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Being Scottish by birth and growing up amongst a large Scottish community, I can tell you that there is very little more insulting to the Scots, The Scottish than being called "Scotch" or "The Scotch".....not sure anyone would ever refer to Canadians as Rye or "the Rye" or Americans as Bourbon or "the Bourbons" just cause that is the whiskey they produce.
 
TOareaFan said:
Being Scottish by birth and growing up amongst a large Scottish community, I can tell you that there is very little more insulting to the Scots, The Scottish than being called "Scotch" or "The Scotch".....not sure anyone would ever refer to Canadians as Rye or "the Rye" or Americans as Bourbon or "the Bourbons" just cause that is the whiskey they produce.
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Sorry, no offense was meant. I am not even sure if my mom would have known it was offensive, and she may not have consciously made the connection to whiskey. The way it came out was more akin to calling Canadians 'Canucks'. It was certainly never used as disparagingly as 'mick' or 'paddy' were used to describe Irish people. But if you say that it was an ethnic slur, then I will take your word for it.

It really goes back to describe a completely different time. Scottish people were a huge influence on Canadian. When I lived in Vancouver, I remember a discussion about how widespread the Campbells were in Canada, with a Prime Minister (Kim), a premier (Gordon) and a mayor (Larry.) Some of the influence has been very beneficial (governance and education especially), and some of the influence (everything closed on Sundays, 'spirits' tightly controlled) has rightfully changed over the years.
 
newearthling said:
Sorry, no offense was meant. I am not even sure if my mom would have known it was offensive, and she may not have consciously made the connection to whiskey. The way it came out was more akin to calling Canadians 'Canucks'. It was certainly never used as disparagingly as 'mick' or 'paddy' were used to describe Irish people. But if you say that it was an ethnic slur, then I will take your word for it.
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Historically the Scots have been very easy going in terms of how they are referred to/treated so it has led to a long history of "inadvertant" or "accidental" misrepresentation or nomenclature. I usually don't react as strongly to this as I have here but it is interesting that an Irish person would be using that terminology. For one thing, are strong links between the Irish and Scots and, as you note, the Irish themselves have been the subject of some "name calling" over the years so you might expect them to be a wee bit more careful when describing others ;)

Scotch is a product of Scotland...nothing more, nothing less....and it is more of an irritant than anything else that people can't figure that out and that there is no such thing as a "Scotch person".

Another example is playing its way out on our airwaves every day and at BMO Field every TFC match.....because a company by the name of "Scotts" sounds vaguely similar to the "Scots" they have built an advertising and marketing program built around all of the old scottish stereotypes....most of us just shrug it off but I have heard people say they are insulted by the campaign and how they would never use the product. I have also heard comments that "if they did that with any other race/culture there would be outrage."


It really goes back to describe a completely different time. Scottish people were a huge influence on Canadian. When I lived in Vancouver, I remember a discussion about how widespread the Campbells were in Canada, with a Prime Minister (Kim), a premier (Gordon) and a mayor (Larry.) Some of the influence has been very beneficial (governance and education especially), and some of the influence (everything closed on Sundays, 'spirits' tightly controlled) has rightfully changed over the years.
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It goes way, way back.....after all, our first Prime Minister was a Glaswegian. (interesting factoid, the house he was born in is now owned by Canadians as it was bought by Selfridges).
 
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The way i see it the government has two options with the Beer Store that would be better than the status quo.

1. They can liberalize beer sales to all retailers with proper licensing and regulation and such and continue to receive the revenue from the tax. The private retailers will continue to benefit from the profit of the sales. Depending on your economic philosophical lens you may even argue that tax revenues could shift upward or downward here however, the main benefit is providing customer with better choice and easier access.

2. The government can take back control of the Beer Store under a crown corporation or as a wing of the LCBO. Under this they receive both the tax revenue from the sale AND the profit of the sale. It can be argued that the additional profit revenues can be reinvested in public services etc. Under the current civic and political climate and discourse however I hardly see this option as being palatable to most Ontarians given how much we are already fed up with monopolized beer sales.

I would opt for the first as the best course of action and I have no idea, besides government pocket greasing, that the Beer Store Monopoly is not given the shot of death. It's good politics, it's possibly good/bad revenue changes and it may settle the pressure for LCBO liberalizing.
 
I worked for TBS for over 4 years (mostly at store #4502 on Concession St. in Kingston).

My worry is that a Mac's or whatever won't be able to recycle as well as TBS does.

TBS was (when I worked there, anyway) one of the largest recyclers in the province.

Also, how will empties be brought back? I don't know how it's done in other provinces that sell beer in corner stores, but I gather it can't possibly be done as well as they sort them and send them back like they do at TBS.

Just a few thoughts ...
 
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Start by requiring a deposit on all bottles and containers. As a kid, I remember the 5¢ deposit on pop bottles and milk bottles.

From Wikipedia, at this link:

The Canadian provinces and two of the territories have their own deposit refund systems (the territory of Nunavut is the only jurisdiction in Canada with no deposit refund system in place). Deposits range from 5¢ to 40¢ per unit depending on the material and size of the container and whether the beverage originally contained within is alcoholic or non-alcoholic.

Ontario's system of deposit refunds for beer bottles, through "The Beer Store" (The Beer Store is owned by three Ontario brewers: Labatt, Molson and Sleeman), has close to a 100% return rate. The bottles can be cleaned and reused 15 to 20 times. Effective February 5, 2007, Ontario's container deposit applies to wine and spirit, in addition to beer containers. However, even though spirits may only be purchased at government run stores (LCBO) and wine may only be purchased there and at specialty wine shops and directly from wineries, these bottles may only be returned for deposit refund at The Beer Store. Ontario's system does not extend to non-alcoholic beverages.

The programs in other provinces:

  • Manitoba: only beer containers are charged a deposit (10¢). Other non-dairy containers are charged a non-refundable 2¢ per unit levy and may be recycled in municipal curbside recycling programs.
  • Quebec: beer and carbonated soft drink containers are charged deposits (5¢–20¢ depending on the size, material and content of the container)
  • Alberta: all beverage containers (glass bottles, metallic cans, TetraPaks, gable-top cartons, bags-in-boxes, plastic bottles and jugs, drink pouches), including milk containers, are charged deposits at the point of sale; 10¢ for containers 1 L or less, 25¢ for containers larger than 1 L.
  • all other provinces charge deposits on beverage containers, except for milk and other dairy products
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Most supermarkets in the states have bottle return areas in their stores. No matter how you cut it The Beer Store has no reason to exist except to maintain its monopoly.
 
jozl said:
Most supermarkets in the states have bottle return areas in their stores. No matter how you cut it The Beer Store has no reason to exist except to maintain its monopoly.
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Yep. You can either get cash or store credit for your returns. They also have private Recycling Depots, that will buy your beer/pop bottles and cans. It's a great way to recycle and even creates jobs.

Bottle Junction is the hassle free way to return your cans and bottles for deposit in the Buffalo, NY area. “The fast track to your nickel back.†Never again sort or count bottles and cans, use a machine or be tied up at a convenience store. Just bring your bottle returns to our friendly staff and we’ll do it all for you.

[video=youtube;RlG_6JtdNtI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlG_6JtdNtI[/video]
 
I can't wait until the Beer Cartel is broken up. If anything it should be owned by the government or have private operators, not beer companies.
 
I find the funniest thing is the Beer Store bragging about the number of brands they have.. and by going with convenience/grocery stores you'll have less selection. So many of these different brands are actually all owned by the Big 3 or other big companies, with very few independent/craft breweries being able to get on shelves. Ridiculous that they can set up their own stores across the province but other companies can't. Here is a sample - some are sub-brands created by the large companies, others they purchased.

Barking Squirrel (Hop City), James Ready, Cracked Canoe, Boundary Ale - Moosehead (not a big 3 but notorious for creating many different brands not obviously linked to the parent company)
Alexander Keith's, Shocktop - AB/InBev
Upper Canada Brewing Company, Unibroue, Okanagan Spring - Sapporo
Creemore Springs, Granville Island Brewing Company - Molson Coors

That's just a few, there are dozens more alternative brands they own or have the licence to brew in Canada
 
Now that Ontario has a majority Liberal government the chances of getting rid of The Beer Store are next to nil. All three big political parties get substantial contributions from the beer monopoly. Early in the campaign Hudak indicated that he was willing to consider private beer sales but later reneged on it. The Green Party was the only party who said they would break up the beer monopoly. The NDP are the worst. They love the Beer Store because they have a unionized staff and they love the LCBO for the same reason. It's very disheartening. Most people that I speak to about our foreign owned monopoly aren't even aware it's privately owned. Many people think the beer store is a government agency. Ontarians are a compaicent bunch. They don't realize when they're being taken for suckers. I, for one, will continue to write to my mpp asking to get beer in supermarkets and disband the beer store.
 
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