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SmartTrack (Proposed)

Palma said:
you have got to be kidding? Give the Liberals another 30 years? just for transit - assuming they will be building for 30 years
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On the basis of transit, you'd have to be kidding to let either of the other 2 parties in, given the complete lack of substance of either party's platform compared to The Big Move. We are finally getting some serious momentum - we'd be fools from a transit perspective to change that.

For other perspectives there are other forums to discuss this.
 
kEiThZ said:
The biggest issue our (Canadian) next generation faces is economic. With 7 digit home prices in Toronto, without salaries keeping up, there's going to be a lot more people moving to places like Scarborough (which everybody loves to slam) when they have kids. Not like they are making downtown very family friendly anytime soon. Those high home prices though, are coming with higher prices for everything else too. And I'm not sure, we'll have the tax base to move to a more efficient low carbon economy in anything but a very slow transition. The Liberals are spending $125 billion over several decades. In reality, we'd have to spend close to that in a single decade to make any seriously noticeable difference.
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It's quite normal for people to move to the 'burbs when they have kids and their life doesn't involve being close to nightlife. Some baby boomers believe in the old way where you graduated high school or university, got married, had kids and moved right from your parents house to your house for the next 50 years of your life that was in the same community as your parents (either being an apartment downtown or a house in the burbs).

They believe the same should be true now. It isn't with the changing socio-patterns. You graduate, move to a condo where your friends, entertainment choices are and where you can find someone to date. Then you get married and wait several years to have a kid (still often living downtown). Once you have a kid you have to move to a bigger place and based on your income levels you choose a place that is as close to work that you can afford, as close to entertainment choices (which are different that when you were single) and as close to the right education.

Also remaining in the neighbourhood that your parents are in assumes that you have the same economic ability that your parents have. That is not a good thing and assumes that there is very little generational changes to your economic status. I hope that Toronto is and will continue to be a place where someone from Regent Park can move to the Bridal Path with education and a bit of luck. Likewise someone from the Kingsway may end up in Rexdale if they don't apply themselves.

You are willing to forgo time (to travel to work) based on these above criteria. And its a trade off and not everyone will be able to choose transit time as their #1 priority (nor should they). That being said Smarttrack will create additional areas where travel time is reduced and will increase the value (either economic or socio) of these neighbourhoods that people now have got back 15 minutes of their day.

This means that some people will want to move in to these neighbourhoods and will force others out. But that's not a bad thing.
 
The economics of where we take up residence mostly comes down to time vs. space. For roughly the same amount of money you can either have a larger home with more greenspace farther from your workplace or you can live in a smaller dwelling conveniently located close to work and amenities. The priciest neighborhoods will always be the ones that seem to provide both, like Rosedale or Forest Hill. The smart money finds the next leafy, trendy neighborhood, e. g. Trinity Bellwoods is the new Yorkville. The problem with laying out new rapid transit is that it creates winners and losers. Property values increase along new subway lines. That's why looking at ridership is so important. Which routes benefit the most people and neighbourhoods? But there's another consideration when it comes to city branding: Which neighborhoods do we want to highlight and make easily accessible to visitors? It's ridiculous to me that current ST plans don't include a station in the Distillery District for that reason. It's a prime tourist destination. This also needs to be considered when we supplement ST with DRL. A DRL that stretches out to the Queenway may appeal to some condo owners near Park Lawn, but maybe making areas like Little Italy more accessible by routing DRL north farther east is better from an entertainment and branding perspective, because it makes areas that people actually want to visit more accessible. This is an important conversation to have, because we want to make sure these lines are cost effective and maximize revenue for the city and productivity for businesses/workers. ST's biggest advantage is cost. We have to make sure we aren't paying big bucks for exorbitant political vanity projects like the Scarborough subway.

The cost of living in Canada, especially in cities like Toronto and Vancouver, is extremely high. We're adding to these costs by paying for a number of politicized projects that we'll be paying for heavily down the road. Privatizing Hydro One is a disaster. Go to England where they've privatized utilities and $200.00 monthly water bills are the norm. Be very wary of anyone who says we should pay more for basic services. You will pay more as private companies seek return on investment and resources become scarce. As middle class jobs further decline through deindustrialization, the polarization of classes between people working in low paid service jobs and the small, highly skilled 'creative class' will only increase. We're just trying to salvage the middle class.
 
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1overcosc said:
Privitization of Hydro One will have zero effect on hydro bills and will not change the pace of increases. Hydro rates are regulated by the OEB and the IESO and that doesn't change whether a utility is public or private. Many of the transmission utilities in Ontario are already private.
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You think the public is going to see it that way?
 
1overcosc said:
Privitization of Hydro One will have zero effect on hydro bills and will not change the pace of increases. Hydro rates are regulated by the OEB and the IESO and that doesn't change whether a utility is public or private. Many of the transmission utilities in Ontario are already private.
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You actually believe that bunk? Hydro rates were scheduled to increase substantially in the coming decade. That's the reason the Liberals sold Hdyro. Not because they want to pay for transit. But because they needed a "fall guy" to take the blame. Nothing better than to blame some "private" operator and say that their hands are tied. Far less of an impact for the Liberals than actually raising the rates themselves.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...o-cost-another-137-for-most-in-2016-1.3010441

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/canada/features/power-switch/calculators/calculator-interactive.html
 
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Getting to the topic at hand. I do think Smart Track and GO RER will have a better shot with any PC government than any LRT.
 
kEiThZ said:
Getting to the topic at hand. I do think Smart Track and GO RER will have a better shot with any PC government than any LRT.
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Makes sense on the principle the Ontario PCs would try to pick up seats in 905, while their rural base seems to hate 416. On the other hand, Hudak came out in favour of expressways and subways in the last election, presumably because the Fords were somehow part of the Tory equation. The only thing one could say for certain is that a provincial PC government would be a disaster for mobility in 416 and the GGTA.
 
pman said:
Makes sense on the principle the Ontario PCs would try to pick up seats in 905, while their rural base seems to hate 416. On the other hand, Hudak came out in favour of expressways and subways in the last election, presumably because the Fords were somehow part of the Tory equation. The only thing one could say for certain is that a provincial PC government would be a disaster for mobility in 416 and the GGTA.
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Not necessarily. Hudak also supported a DRL. I don't get the naivete on this forum. Do people really think the PCs have no desire to get back into power? Hudak's big mistake was thinking Ford could deliver votes. They now know Ford nation is more Ford village and they will tailor their platform accordingly.

I could see a huge push for RER and Smart Track (in a more combined project). I could see a push for the DRL in lieu of other LRTs in Toronto.
 
kEiThZ said:
Not necessarily. Hudak also supported a DRL. I don't get the naivete on this forum. Do people really think the PCs have no desire to get back into power? Hudak's big mistake was thinking Ford could deliver votes. They now know Ford nation is more Ford village and they will tailor their platform accordingly.

I could see a huge push for RER and Smart Track (in a more combined project). I could see a push for the DRL in lieu of other LRTs in Toronto.
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Hudak supported an "express subway" linking the suburbs to Downtown Toronto. Less than a year later, Tory comes up with SmartTrack, an "express subway" linking the suburbs to Downtown Toronto. I don't think that's coincidence.
 
Palma said:
Do you know you do not leave a space before the? (See, I just showed you the correct way to use it).
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In my high school typing classes, we were taught to type two spaces after the period, exclamation point, colon, or question mark. These days, most people now use a single space after all punctuation marks.
 
kEiThZ said:
Not necessarily. Hudak also supported a DRL. I don't get the naivete on this forum. Do people really think the PCs have no desire to get back into power? Hudak's big mistake was thinking Ford could deliver votes. They now know Ford nation is more Ford village and they will tailor their platform accordingly.

I could see a huge push for RER and Smart Track (in a more combined project). I could see a push for the DRL in lieu of other LRTs in Toronto.
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I'd expect them to stand behind a Relief Line, particularly the extension to Sheppard, depending on what they feel their chances of picking up Toronto seats are.

RER is more questionable, since there's a far smaller proportion of transit users in the 905 than the 416. It might be politically beneficial for them to advocate for the cancelation of RER, than spending $10 Billion for something that might be perceived to only benefit a small number of 905 commuters.
 
I think that the Liberals will sign a whole bunch of contracts for RER just before the election in order to make it impossible to cancel.

I doubt it if the PCs will build the DRL though.
 
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