St. Even
Active Member
I'm a bit confused.....how do bicycles fit in?
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Scramble Crossings (City of Toronto) (Yonge/Dundas, Yonge/Bloor, Bay/Bloor)
- Thread starter unimaginative2
- Start date
H
Hydrogen
Guest
^Very carefully.
BuildTO
Active Member
Tokyo has lots of scramble crossings and they work wonderfully.
salvius
Active Member
If you look at OLD pics of downtown Toronto -- the one before traffic lights -- you see people crossing the streets diagonally all the time, which is as it should be. It'd be nice to bring this back to at least certain intersections.
BobBob
Senior Member
Pedestrian 'scramble' eyed for Yonge and Bloor
Pedestrian 'scramble' eyed for Yonge and Bloor
http://www.thestar.com/article/268449
Scramble vs. Roundabout intersections
Oct 19, 2007 04:30 AM
Patty Winsa
Staff Reporter
It will be a pedestrian free-for-all at two of Toronto's busiest crossroads this spring – Yonge-Bloor and Bloor-Bay – if the idea of scramble intersections is approved by city council on Monday.
Often called the Barnes Dance (after traffic engineer Henry Barnes, who introduced the idea to Denver), such intersections use red lights to stop traffic in all directions at once so pedestrians can cross any way they like, even diagonally. Then pedestrians are stopped while cars take their turns on the green.
Drivers will wait a little longer to get through a red – how long has yet to be determined – but should find turning easier since they won't encounter pedestrians in the crosswalk.
It's one of a host of fresh ideas included in the Toronto Walking Strategy, really an environmental strategy shrink-wrapped in a pedestrian-friendly initiative and endorsed by the city's official plan.
"In the official plan, there were strong statements about the need to support pedestrians and to find a way to grow the city of Toronto without adding additional vehicles," said Bruce Zvaniga, manager of urban traffic control systems.
To fulfill that goal, people must feel safe on foot.
"It's one of the reasons that pedestrians state today why they don't walk from one location to another," Zvaniga said.
Scramble intersections were tried as early as the 1940s in Vancouver and Kansas City, and have since been used strategically in many American cities, Sweden, Israel and elsewhere. Japan has at least 300. The main disadvantage is increased waits.
But studies such as one done in Oakland, Calif., in 2003 have shown a reduced number of car-pedestrian accidents.
That's not the only crossroads makeover in the works in Toronto.
In the New Year, city staff will report back to council on the feasibility of using roundabouts rather than the typical four-way stop or signal light at some intersections.
It's a change Waterloo Region endorsed in the fall of 2004, when it began installing roundabouts on regional roads.
By the end of this year the region will have a total of 11.
"We like them because they reduce injury collisions," said Nancy Button, the region's manager of transportation engineering.
"There are fewer conflict points and lower speeds, so you don't get angle collisions (such as T-bones) because everyone is going in the same direction."
She also notes the roundabouts create less delay (no idling motors) and therefore reduce vehicle emissions.
Studies on two Waterloo roundabouts show that injury collisions have been reduced at those intersections.
"Now, the public really likes them," said Button. "In fact, when we're considering new signals, the public says, `We don't want signals, we want a roundabout.'"
---
I hope this goes through. Yonge/Dundas seems like another good candidate, and not just because it would make it more like Shibuya. It must be one of the busiest pedestrian intersections.
Pedestrian 'scramble' eyed for Yonge and Bloor
http://www.thestar.com/article/268449
Scramble vs. Roundabout intersections
Oct 19, 2007 04:30 AM
Patty Winsa
Staff Reporter
It will be a pedestrian free-for-all at two of Toronto's busiest crossroads this spring – Yonge-Bloor and Bloor-Bay – if the idea of scramble intersections is approved by city council on Monday.
Often called the Barnes Dance (after traffic engineer Henry Barnes, who introduced the idea to Denver), such intersections use red lights to stop traffic in all directions at once so pedestrians can cross any way they like, even diagonally. Then pedestrians are stopped while cars take their turns on the green.
Drivers will wait a little longer to get through a red – how long has yet to be determined – but should find turning easier since they won't encounter pedestrians in the crosswalk.
It's one of a host of fresh ideas included in the Toronto Walking Strategy, really an environmental strategy shrink-wrapped in a pedestrian-friendly initiative and endorsed by the city's official plan.
"In the official plan, there were strong statements about the need to support pedestrians and to find a way to grow the city of Toronto without adding additional vehicles," said Bruce Zvaniga, manager of urban traffic control systems.
To fulfill that goal, people must feel safe on foot.
"It's one of the reasons that pedestrians state today why they don't walk from one location to another," Zvaniga said.
Scramble intersections were tried as early as the 1940s in Vancouver and Kansas City, and have since been used strategically in many American cities, Sweden, Israel and elsewhere. Japan has at least 300. The main disadvantage is increased waits.
But studies such as one done in Oakland, Calif., in 2003 have shown a reduced number of car-pedestrian accidents.
That's not the only crossroads makeover in the works in Toronto.
In the New Year, city staff will report back to council on the feasibility of using roundabouts rather than the typical four-way stop or signal light at some intersections.
It's a change Waterloo Region endorsed in the fall of 2004, when it began installing roundabouts on regional roads.
By the end of this year the region will have a total of 11.
"We like them because they reduce injury collisions," said Nancy Button, the region's manager of transportation engineering.
"There are fewer conflict points and lower speeds, so you don't get angle collisions (such as T-bones) because everyone is going in the same direction."
She also notes the roundabouts create less delay (no idling motors) and therefore reduce vehicle emissions.
Studies on two Waterloo roundabouts show that injury collisions have been reduced at those intersections.
"Now, the public really likes them," said Button. "In fact, when we're considering new signals, the public says, `We don't want signals, we want a roundabout.'"
---
I hope this goes through. Yonge/Dundas seems like another good candidate, and not just because it would make it more like Shibuya. It must be one of the busiest pedestrian intersections.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
It wouldn't be any more confusing than it is now. A red light means stop. Its not like they will have new lights for drivers to learn. No right on red signs can already be found in the city so its not like that would be new either. Im sure pedestrians will get use to it pretty quickly too.
from the Toronto Star
`Scramble' crossings slated for 4 corners
SCRAMBLE VS. ROUNDABOUT INTERSECTIONS
Intersections along Bloor and Dundas to allow diagonal option
Oct 24, 2007 04:30 AM
JIM BYERS
CITY HALL BUREAU
Get ready to scramble.
Toronto city council last night endorsed the idea of so-called "scramble" intersections at four major downtown hubs: Yonge and Bloor, Bay and Bloor, Yonge and Dundas, and Bay and Dundas. Some could be in place by next spring.
The intersections, popular elsewhere but seldom seen in Canada, feature red lights that stop vehicular traffic in all directions at once so pedestrians can cross any way they like, including diagonally. In the next sequence, walkers are stopped from crossing in all directions so cars can move without interference from foot traffic in the crosswalks.
City officials say the move protects pedestrians from being struck by cars and helps drivers by making turns easier. "One of the things we also like is we'll be able to get rid of some turn prohibitions," said John Mende, director of Transportation Infrastructure Management.
Staff had recommended trying the plan at the two Bloor intersections. But downtown Councillor Kyle Rae last night was able to get the two Dundas St. intersections added.
Rae said 62,100 people a day pass through Yonge and Dundas, while 20 million people a year start or end their TTC trip at Dundas station.
"It's a no-brainer to try this at Yonge and Dundas," he said.
Adding the Bay and Dundas intersection also makes sense, he said, because of its proximity to the Bay St. bus terminal and Ryerson University business school.
Mende said money for the project will come from the city's existing budget as it only requires some signal changes and a little paint.
The two Bloor intersections have already been studied and could get the new pedestrian crossings by spring. It might take longer to review the Dundas intersections and deal with implications for the Dundas streetcar, he said.
Often called the Barnes Dance, after traffic engineer Henry Barnes, who introduced the idea to Denver, scramble intersections are in use in several American cities and in countries as varied as Israel and Sweden. Japan boasts about 300 such intersections.
Studies have found that scramble patterns reduce pedestrian-car accidents, though some have noted an increased incidence of pedestrians disobeying the rules.
The main disadvantage is that motorists must wait longer to get their turn at a green light. The exact timing of the Toronto signals has yet to be determined.
The idea is one in a package of new ideas being considered as part of the city's Toronto Walking Strategy, aimed at encouraging people to drive less and walk more.
`Scramble' crossings slated for 4 corners
SCRAMBLE VS. ROUNDABOUT INTERSECTIONS
Intersections along Bloor and Dundas to allow diagonal option
Oct 24, 2007 04:30 AM
JIM BYERS
CITY HALL BUREAU
Get ready to scramble.
Toronto city council last night endorsed the idea of so-called "scramble" intersections at four major downtown hubs: Yonge and Bloor, Bay and Bloor, Yonge and Dundas, and Bay and Dundas. Some could be in place by next spring.
The intersections, popular elsewhere but seldom seen in Canada, feature red lights that stop vehicular traffic in all directions at once so pedestrians can cross any way they like, including diagonally. In the next sequence, walkers are stopped from crossing in all directions so cars can move without interference from foot traffic in the crosswalks.
City officials say the move protects pedestrians from being struck by cars and helps drivers by making turns easier. "One of the things we also like is we'll be able to get rid of some turn prohibitions," said John Mende, director of Transportation Infrastructure Management.
Staff had recommended trying the plan at the two Bloor intersections. But downtown Councillor Kyle Rae last night was able to get the two Dundas St. intersections added.
Rae said 62,100 people a day pass through Yonge and Dundas, while 20 million people a year start or end their TTC trip at Dundas station.
"It's a no-brainer to try this at Yonge and Dundas," he said.
Adding the Bay and Dundas intersection also makes sense, he said, because of its proximity to the Bay St. bus terminal and Ryerson University business school.
Mende said money for the project will come from the city's existing budget as it only requires some signal changes and a little paint.
The two Bloor intersections have already been studied and could get the new pedestrian crossings by spring. It might take longer to review the Dundas intersections and deal with implications for the Dundas streetcar, he said.
Often called the Barnes Dance, after traffic engineer Henry Barnes, who introduced the idea to Denver, scramble intersections are in use in several American cities and in countries as varied as Israel and Sweden. Japan boasts about 300 such intersections.
Studies have found that scramble patterns reduce pedestrian-car accidents, though some have noted an increased incidence of pedestrians disobeying the rules.
The main disadvantage is that motorists must wait longer to get their turn at a green light. The exact timing of the Toronto signals has yet to be determined.
The idea is one in a package of new ideas being considered as part of the city's Toronto Walking Strategy, aimed at encouraging people to drive less and walk more.
St. Even
Active Member
I'm wondering how this will affect priority signalling (such that we have) for transit and emergency vehicles?
CDL.TO
Moderator
There is no priority signalling for emergency vehicles in the former Toronto. Can't speak for the rest of the city. Transit priority in the places where it is installed simply holds a green light for an extended period if there is a vehicle sitting at the intersection loading passengers. There's no reason why this should affect that.
ShonTron
Moderator
Member Bio
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No where in Toronto has the emergency vehicle pre-emption - I believe Metro had responsibility for all the traffic lights, so there's long been a city-wide standard, even pre-amalgamation. Peel and York have switched from the white strobe light detector to a transmitter-based system recently as well.
khris
Senior Member
So, after all the people get to cross, then the cars get to go. Now, will people still be able to cross the way they do now, while the cars have a green light?
Also, how will people know when the scramble is over, and it's the cars turn to go?
Also, how will people know when the scramble is over, and it's the cars turn to go?
indense
Active Member
No. When the cars have a green, all of the pedestrians have to stop. This means that the cars wanting to turn right don't have to wait for a break in the flow of pedestrians. Therefore the ban on right hand turns at Yonge and Dundas (can't remember if the other intersections allow right hand turns) should be removed.
I think that when the pedestrian light turns green, we need loudspeakers that anounce "SCRAMBLE!!!!"
lordmandeep
Banned
then some crazy upbeat techno music...
scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!
scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!scramble!
khris
Senior Member
HAHAHA! So funny.
adma
Superstar
SCRAMBLED EGGS
Based on "Yesterday" written by John Lennon and Paul McCartney
Scrambled eggs
Oh my baby how I love your legs
They're a lovely pair of shapely pegs
Oh baby how I love your legs
Fish and chips
Oh my baby how I love your lips
When I kiss them my heart does back flips
Oh baby how I love your lips
Lunch or breakfast time seems that I'm
Thinking of you
And your love so sweet like the meat
Of shepherd's stew
Cherry pies
Oh my baby how I love your eyes
Loving you's a joyous enterprise
Oh baby how I love your eyes
Dinner or snack time or when I'm
Perched on the loo
All I can think of is the love
I feel for you
Scrambled eggs
Oh my baby how I love your legs
Like I love the ale that comes in kegs
Oh baby how I love your legs
Based on "Yesterday" written by John Lennon and Paul McCartney
Scrambled eggs
Oh my baby how I love your legs
They're a lovely pair of shapely pegs
Oh baby how I love your legs
Fish and chips
Oh my baby how I love your lips
When I kiss them my heart does back flips
Oh baby how I love your lips
Lunch or breakfast time seems that I'm
Thinking of you
And your love so sweet like the meat
Of shepherd's stew
Cherry pies
Oh my baby how I love your eyes
Loving you's a joyous enterprise
Oh baby how I love your eyes
Dinner or snack time or when I'm
Perched on the loo
All I can think of is the love
I feel for you
Scrambled eggs
Oh my baby how I love your legs
Like I love the ale that comes in kegs
Oh baby how I love your legs