Scramble Crossings (City of Toronto) (Yonge/Dundas, Yonge/Bloor, Bay/Bloor)

[unimaginative2]

I agree. I can't stand drivers who enter the intersection when there's clearly no room at the other end. Even worse, I've been waiting at one side of the intersection for the other side to clear, and been passed by cars behind me who then charge out into the intersection and get stuck there.

 

[Spoonman]

They have a scramble crossing in downtown Guelph (at St. George Square). I admit it's probably on a different scale since both automobile and pedestrian traffic in Guelph is quite modest, but the signals operate such that pedestrians cross after every cycle. In other words, you have: E/W cars cross; pedestrians cross; N/S cars cross; pedestrians cross; etc. (really it's more of a 3-way intersection, but the same principle applies). This type of system clearly disadvantages motorists, but I say tough patookie.

have any of you actually had to live in a city that used these exclusively? After three years in new haven ct, I can tell you that they are absolutely horrid for pedestrians, and only really benefit vehicular traffic. Why is this? because you end up having to wait two cycles of vehicular lights for every pedestrian crossing - this meaning twice as much wait time as you're used to. This is especially frustrating at longer lights - imagine waiting at spadina for five solid minutes before being able to cross. Sure there's a novelty to being able to cross at a diagonal, but the time you save in this "shortest distance" cut does not at all make up for the time you spend waiting for the light to change... after attempting to obey the system for a month or two I gave up entirely, and based my crossings only on whether or not there was a vehicle approaching the intersection.

 

[khris]

Pedestrian-Friendly Plan For Toronto Could Drive Motorists Mad

Making Toronto more pedestrian-friendly is the aim of an ambitious but controversial Toronto Works Committee report about to go before city council.

Cutting congestion at busy intersections is just one aspect of the report, which strives to encourage walking, cycling and all forms of transportation other than the car.

One idea that could be implemented is a 'scramble intersection', where all traffic lights remain red in all directions for about a minute, allowing pedestrians to cross in any direction while drivers likely turn red in the face.

"Anything that makes it more friendly and a better place for pedestrians in Toronto is a great idea," said local Philip Clarke while out for a stroll.

Those in cars don't seem quite as enthused.

"It's an absolutely stupid idea and I don't know who's paying for it. I hope not me," barked one angry driver.

City officials say they want to take baby steps and try some new ideas and see what works.

One plan is already underway though. Starting next year, sidewalks will be widened to give pedestrians more room, and the lanes of traffic will be narrowed on the strip of Bloor St., between Church and Avenue.

Director of Transportation, Gary Welsh, defended the proposed changes.

"Congestion will certainly get worse if we don't do anything. We get criticized for not thinking outside the box, (in this case) we are."

The report goes before city council in later October, and drivers be warned: The issue of toll roads may once again be raised.

Source Including video.

Intersections like Yonge/Queen and Yonge/Dundas and Yonge/Bloor would probably really benefit from such type of intersections. At least during rush hours.
LOL @ the guy in the car complaining how stupid the idea is.

 

[lordmandeep]

he was a taxi driver likely...

If your livelihood depended on driving, then one would complain.


However, the major intersections should have this done ASAP....

 

[TrickyRicky]

regarding the scramble intersection idea, I think the driver although over emotional is probably right. How many intersections can you name that would benefit from such a system and during what hours? There are none I can think of that have sufficient pedestrian density during a 24 hour period to bother. During limited periods of rush hour maybe Bay and Bloor, Dundas and Spadina, Front at Union?

 

[MajorComplainer]

One idea that could be implemented is a 'scramble intersection', where all traffic lights remain red in all directions for about a minute, allowing pedestrians to cross in any direction while drivers likely turn red in the face.

Ya, GREAT IDEA! That will allow more drivers who know that the red light is coming up, so they can speed up and rush through the red light! Or simply push through one after another and block all the intersections...

 

[Hydrogen]

Why would a four-way red light mean that drivers would automatically run it?

As for blocking the intersection, that already happens.

 

[tracyjacks]

Controversial really seems to have joined that most annoying league of words, which includes diva, legendary, and many others, that are so overused they've lost much of their meaning. One driver with a peculiarly canine way of voicing his objections equals a controversy?

 

[Irishmonk]

I love this "scramble" idea for pedestrians--esp. for the obvious intersections like Yonge/Dundas, Bloor/Yonge. I think it would actually be kind of fun and might augment that urban-jungle effect we T-dotters always seem to crave.

Now, if we could just get some 4-way green lights for knuckle-head drivers we might be on to something.

 

[beaconer]

regarding the scramble intersection idea, I think the driver although over emotional is probably right. How many intersections can you name that would benefit from such a system and during what hours? There are none I can think of that have sufficient pedestrian density during a 24 hour period to bother. During limited periods of rush hour maybe Bay and Bloor, Dundas and Spadina, Front at Union?

-Front and Bay
-Bay and Wellington
-Front and York

During the rush hour stampede of 905'ers taking the go, these intersections are jammed.

The problem I see with the scramble intersection is that the light is needed almost as much for the pedestrians. Pedestrians have a hard time negotiating right of way in congestions ambiguous situations..

 

[GregWTravels]

Two items...

(1) I saw something on City News last night about the City narrowing the lanes at some intersections and widening the sidewalks as a pilot project. Didn't catch what intersection though. Anyone remember?

(2) From the CBC, a "provocative" proposal. It's not controversial, though

Expert proposes 'naked streets' for Toronto
Strategy frightens drivers into slowing down

A new, provocative suggestion for making the streets of Toronto safer for pedestrians: eliminate all street and speed limit signs.

In places where the unusual concept has been tried, like the Netherlands, it has led to a significant decrease in traffic mishaps and pedestrian injuries.

Right now, speed limits, red lights and clearly marked and separated areas for cars and pedestrians are the norm in cities all over the world. But that thinking is "all wrong" according to Dutch traffic engineer Hans Monderman, who says it is much safer to build what he calls "naked streets."

"We removed anything referring to the traffic, made it just a square and please find your own way. This is the middle of the city. This is social space, and in social space we don't want to interfere as government," he said.

What he has done with intersections all over Holland — and even on a section of Kensington High Street in London — is abolish the rules. No more speed limits, no traffic lights, not even any curbs to separate sidewalk and road.

Monderman says this scares drivers so much they slow down and move carefully to avoid hitting anyone.

"We have to find a way to convince our politicians that avoidance of risk is not the right strategy. We have to try to manage risk with a certain amount of it in our designs."

The naked streets project has resulted in a 60 per cent drop in accidents involving pedestrians. Monderman says that's because it appeals to the human ability to collectively solve problems.

 

[rpgr]

Once again I'll reiterate my point, the problem isn't pedestrian or too many cars at these intersections, the problem comes from people that stop in the middle of the intersection when they clearly can't cross.

This causes the backlog as now you only have 1 lane to pass on when the other way goes green. People get pissed off and do the same thing the other way. Get rid of people blocking the way and it'll be good. If you have scramble crossings you'll train your pedestrians to be assholes (which many already are) and they will cross when it pleases them also blocking traffic.

It's the same reason right hand green lights don't work well.

 

[khris]

-Front and Bay
-Bay and Wellington
-Front and York

During the rush hour stampede of 905'ers taking the go, these intersections are jammed.

905'ers? I really wish people would stop using that term. It's pretty silly, and makes it sound like they are less than the people who live in the 416.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

There's 905ers and downtowners...the presence of almost 2 million people living in suburban 416 rarely even registers.

I really like the idea of a St. George & Harbord/Hoskin scramble between :50 and :15 or so. I'd say all the time, but jaystrolling across St. George in that area is really easy.

 

[beaconer]

905'ers? I really wish people would stop using that term. It's pretty silly, and makes it sound like they are less than the people who live in the 416.

Oh but that is because we are...you know, better people. We're prettier, smarter, and by and large, better manicured and for some reason strange reason, better at Sudoku.

Oh by the way, I really wish people would stop using the term catsup instead of ketchup. It's pretty silly, and makes it sound more than it actually is, it's just frickn tomato-ish sauce.