Save Transit City Canvass!

[The Mad Navigator]

If Scarborough Subways are deemed to be too expensive due to lack of enough riders don't let that stop building subway lines anywhere else. Where's this Downtown Core Line! Don't think we would have to worry about that not getting used enough.

And plus there's still time left to make a Network 2011 Canvass.

Wow, someone here who is realistic about the issues! Great to know!

 

[The Mad Navigator]

I may not support Transit City in its entirety but I think this canvass is a great idea. I would echo what gweed said. You have to make it local.

More broadly, I have to yet to see statements from Ford that Eglinton is dead....well other than saying Transit City is dead. I don't see that line as inferring that Eglinton is dead. This was a corridor that was slated to see a subway before. So I fail to see how even killing Transit City would mean Eglinton would get nothing in perpetuity. My point being, I don't see the value in getting worked up before we see an actual plan that officially kills off Eglinton.

It's defeatist attitudes like that, that kill off any hope for any future rapid transit in the city.

 

[gweed123]

It's defeatist attitudes like that, that kill off any hope for any future rapid transit in the city.

Defeatist implies that he's thinking Eglinton will be scrapped, but that he doesn't see any way he can prevent that. That's not what he's saying at all. He's saying that Eglinton likely WON'T be scrapped. Right now, you're fighting to keep the same, without even knowing what the alternative is (and we both know the alternative will NOT be Rob Ford's subway plan, so please don't make it seem like it's either TC or that, because we both know it's not). I for one am going to wait 6 weeks until the TTC's alternative plan is released, THEN I will gauge where my advocacy efforts lie. It will likely be a hybrid between Ford's plan, RTES, and TC. If at the end of the day, Transit City is preferable to the alternative plan, I will support Transit City. If the alternative plan is better, I will support that. But for now, I hardly see why playing "wait a little bit" is the same as being "defeatist".

You can't be "defeatist" when you don't even know what you're being "defeated" by...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think Electrify said it well - it's not about scrapping or supporting TC as is - it is about fixing it (though I think a name change is in order given how tacky it is). That's why the LRT vs HRT debate over the plan is so unhelpful. At the same time, there is no better time than advocacy NOW - if just to ensure that the powers that be get the message.

re: Canvass - one should write to the MPPs as well - the battle will be at both the provincial and local level afterall.

AoD

 

[The Mad Navigator]

Defeatist implies that he's thinking Eglinton will be scrapped, but that he doesn't see any way he can prevent that. That's not what he's saying at all. He's saying that Eglinton likely WON'T be scrapped. Right now, you're fighting to keep the same, without even knowing what the alternative is (and we both know the alternative will NOT be Rob Ford's subway plan, so please don't make it seem like it's either TC or that, because we both know it's not). I for one am going to wait 6 weeks until the TTC's alternative plan is released, THEN I will gauge where my advocacy efforts lie. It will likely be a hybrid between Ford's plan, RTES, and TC. If at the end of the day, Transit City is preferable to the alternative plan, I will support Transit City. If the alternative plan is better, I will support that. But for now, I hardly see why playing "wait a little bit" is the same as being "defeatist".

You can't be "defeatist" when you don't even know what you're being "defeated" by...

Thanks for missing my point, not that I expected you to get it in the first place.....

 

[SimonP]

I may not support Transit City in its entirety but I think this canvass is a great idea. I would echo what gweed said. You have to make it local.

More broadly, I have to yet to see statements from Ford that Eglinton is dead....well other than saying Transit City is dead. I don't see that line as inferring that Eglinton is dead. This was a corridor that was slated to see a subway before. So I fail to see how even killing Transit City would mean Eglinton would get nothing in perpetuity. My point being, I don't see the value in getting worked up before we see an actual plan that officially kills off Eglinton.

I agree that Eglinton will probably be built in some form, but I'm not certain. Ford and his executive haven't been clear either way. That is exactly why now is the time to be active. If Ford announces that Eglinton is its current form is dead, he will have invested his credibility in the statement, backing away from it would look like a defeat, and it will be very hard to change things. Right now, when he could go either way, is a much easier time to influence his decision.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

SimonP:

Actually I will work with the default assumption that RF will want to kill it - but put the pressure on the province to make it part of the upcoming deal making between M'linx and the city.

AoD

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think a lot of people put way too much faith in the flexibility and adaptability of politicians and planners. The best reason to go forward with the Transit City routes on the table right now is that they all have a clear path towards actually becoming a reality.

In six weeks, we may get a new plan and council may approve it, but my gut feeling is, once Ford is told his 'before the Pan-Am games' timeline isn't realistic, everything will get deferred so the government can explore alternative financing schemes or whatever.

There are likely people in the McGuinty government pushing for this outcome as well.

 

[The Mad Navigator]

I think a lot of people put way too much faith in the flexibility and adaptability of politicians and planners. The best reason to go forward with the Transit City routes on the table right now is that they all have a clear path towards actually becoming a reality.

Agreed, everything has been laid out and is ready to go.

In six weeks, we may get a new plan and council may approve it, but my gut feeling is, once Ford is told his 'before the Pan-Am games' timeline isn't realistic, everything will get deferred so the government can explore alternative financing schemes or whatever.

And as a result, nothing will get built because of more political 'hmmmmming' and 'haaaaaaaing.'

Yay for more BS delays!

 

[SimonP]

SimonP:

Actually I will work with the default assumption that RF will want to kill it - but put the pressure on the province to make it part of the upcoming deal making between M'linx and the city.

AoD

I agree that Rob Ford personally wants to kill the Eglinton line, he did afterall campaign on doing so. But I also have a hard time believing that councillors like Stintz, Nunziata, and Parker would consent to killing a line running through their wards. I think the choice here is between acting on his personal instincts, or deferring to some of his more powerful allies. That is the decision that is likely being debated among Ford's exec right now, and the more pressure we can put on people like Stintz the more likely we are to save Eglinton.

 

[The Mad Navigator]

I agree that Rob Ford personally wants to kill the Eglinton line, he did afterall campaign on doing so. But I also have a hard time believing that councillors like Stintz, Nunziata, and Parker would consent to killing a line running through their wards. I think the choice here is between acting on his personal instincts, or deferring to some of his more powerful allies. That is the decision that is likely being debated among Ford's exec right now, and the more pressure we can put on people like Stintz the more likely we are to save Eglinton.

You should come out to help us canvass next time there's an event.

 

[SimonP]

You should come out to help us canvass next time there's an event.

I will, I was sorry to have missed the last one.

 

[gweed123]

Thanks for missing my point, not that I expected you to get it in the first place.....

Thanks for completely missing my point that I support your advocacy cause on Eglinton... I guess because I'm "pro subway" that my support doesn't mean as much, right?

 

[The Mad Navigator]

Thanks for completely missing my point that I support your advocacy cause on Eglinton... I guess because I'm "pro subway" that my support doesn't mean as much, right?

Well, I wouldn't have missed it if you had interpreted mine correctly. One good turn deserves another!

My point was to be pro-active in the community instead of sitting idly by showing that I don't really care about this. Sure, I know your disdain for TC fairly well, and there are some things about it I don't agree, HOWEVER, I for one am sick and tired of waiting for nothing. We can always build subways later down the road (not literally), but we can't wait to do nothing is what I'm getting at. It feels good to get out there and actually try to help residents understand what is and isn't being done for transit here.

Tell me, has SOS actually done anything in the community? Please, I would like to know.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I don't think there are any active (read: not banned) SOS members who currently live in the City of Toronto, so direct involvement with the community is a little challenging.