Roads: Traffic catch all

[TOareaFan]

It would also be an advantageous time for the car idiots to declare 'traffic chaos' if the city tears down the gardiner.

I would think it an opportunity for people who propose to rid us of the Gardiner to make viable alternative suggestions other than just calling drivers idiots.

Today, and for the next 2.5 years, we are going to see what removing 1/3 of its capacity does....and it won't be pretty. So what would happen if it were all gone? What would be the viable alternative?

It is interesting that, in the west end anyway, it is a road that parallels our most frequent service commuter rail line and, yet, it is still a heavily used/relied-on roadway.

 

[JasonParis]

I couldn't make a left turn out of my street (Lake Shore & Fleeceline) due to the Gardiner closure. I basically had to drive into the middle of the street and clog traffic because the stream of cars never stopped. If that's your idea of fixing a problem (clogging local roads) then you sir, are an idiot.

A weekend closure of the Gardiner could not in any way significant mimic long-term changes in traffic patters if the Gardiner were to significantly come down in a hypothetical scenario. The way traffic behaves to significant change is actually counter-intuitive and there's lots of real-world examples to show this.

 

[ehlow]

http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/04/get_ready_for_an_even_more_awful_gardiner_commute/

Get ready for an (even more) awful Gardiner commute
Posted by Derek Flack / APRIL 28, 2014

Commuting on the Gardiner Expressway can be trying at the best of times, but it's about to get a whole lot worse - and for a longer time. Long term construction work began this morning on the troubled highway, which will extend until 2016. No, that's not a typo. Along with periodic weekend closures like we had on Saturday, lane reductions will become an everyday reality for those travelling to and from the core of the city.

Reports from this morning indicated that traffic had slowed to stop-and-go prior to 7:00 a.m. with the left lane closed in both directions from Park Lawn to Strachan. That's going to mean some groggy-eyed wake-ups for those hoping to beat traffic into the city. Ouch. The crumbling expressway needs all manner of work, including bridge repairs over the Humber River, guardrail work, and replacement of the centre median and a deck of roadway on the westbound side near the CNE.

In addition to daytime lane reductions, the eastbound Gardiner will also be closed periodically overnight (from 11:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m.) so that work crews can address repairs that require complete lane closures. Let the road rage begin.

 

[Filip]

A weekend closure of the Gardiner could not in any way significant mimic long-term changes in traffic patters if the Gardiner were to significantly come down in a hypothetical scenario. The way traffic behaves to significant change is actually counter-intuitive and there's lots of real-world examples to show this.

But that's exactly the point, there is no viable east/west alternative through my neck of the woods!

If you close the Gardiner, those cars have to go somewhere... Queensway is a no go because it dead ends at Roncesvalles, so Lake Shore is the only alternative. I can't believe some of you don't realize this, you can't close a vital piece of infrastructure and pretend those cars will evaporate. There is a major challenge in South Etobicoke because of the infrastructure of the area. The Gardiner/rail corridor is a big barrier(few north/south crossings) and the lake is directly south. All those cars will dump onto Lake Shore. Bloor is the only other alternative but it's already a few km north.

Sure, funnel all those cars through my area, but then I ain't paying any property taxes given that I can't even leave my property.

 

[TOareaFan]

But that's exactly the point, there is no viable east/west alternative through my neck of the woods!

If you close the Gardiner, those cars have to go somewhere... Queensway is a no go because it dead ends at Roncesvalles, so Lake Shore is the only alternative. I can't believe some of you don't realize this, you can't close a vital piece of infrastructure and pretend those cars will evaporate. There is a major challenge in South Etobicoke because of the infrastructure of the area. The Gardiner/rail corridor is a big barrier(few north/south crossings) and the lake is directly south. All those cars will dump onto Lake Shore. Bloor is the only other alternative but it's already a few km north.

Sure, funnel all those cars through my area, but then I ain't paying any property taxes given that I can't even leave my property.

I could be wrong but I think JP's point is that comparing a temporary closure to a long term closure/replacement is inappropriate because in the former it is just temporary and the road will re-open...in the latter, presumably, it would be more than just closing one road it would be a plan that displaced that traffic onto other provided alternatives.

My problem is that when I hear people advocating for the closure of the Gardiner (in the west) the alternatives are either never laid out or the presumption is they would be built over time....the alternatives (as we see during the weekend closures or the long term lane closures) need to be there on the day of closing.

 

[salsa]

But that's exactly the point, there is no viable east/west alternative through my neck of the woods!

If you close the Gardiner, those cars have to go somewhere... Queensway is a no go because it dead ends at Roncesvalles, so Lake Shore is the only alternative. I can't believe some of you don't realize this, you can't close a vital piece of infrastructure and pretend those cars will evaporate. There is a major challenge in South Etobicoke because of the infrastructure of the area. The Gardiner/rail corridor is a big barrier(few north/south crossings) and the lake is directly south. All those cars will dump onto Lake Shore. Bloor is the only other alternative but it's already a few km north.

Sure, funnel all those cars through my area, but then I ain't paying any property taxes given that I can't even leave my property.

What does your "neck of the woods" have to do with removing the eastern part of the Gardiner?

 

[Filip]

What does your "neck of the woods" have to do with removing the eastern part of the Gardiner?

I'm pretty sure we were discussing the full Gardiner temporary closure with a footnote on closing permanently the entire elevated portion...

 

[Tuscani01]

But that's exactly the point, there is no viable east/west alternative through my neck of the woods!

If you close the Gardiner, those cars have to go somewhere... Queensway is a no go because it dead ends at Roncesvalles, so Lake Shore is the only alternative. I can't believe some of you don't realize this, you can't close a vital piece of infrastructure and pretend those cars will evaporate. There is a major challenge in South Etobicoke because of the infrastructure of the area. The Gardiner/rail corridor is a big barrier(few north/south crossings) and the lake is directly south. All those cars will dump onto Lake Shore. Bloor is the only other alternative but it's already a few km north.

Sure, funnel all those cars through my area, but then I ain't paying any property taxes given that I can't even leave my property.

Queensway to King, and King into downtown is actually a good alternative. It is what I used to get home this weekend. I avoid Lakeshore like the plague during Gardiner closures, as it's always the worst alternative since everyone goes right for it.

Burnhamthorpe to Dundas, to Prince Edward to Park Lawn is another good alternative if you are coming in from the West end.

 

[innsertnamehere]

a lot of those car trips will likely convert to transit trips. Obviously not all of them.. but when taking a 40 minute transit commute instead of an hour long driving commute (compared to a once 30 minute driving commute) is the option, most people will take it. I expect to see strong growth on the Lakeshore west GO line and otherwise. There is talk that the recent spike in gas prices is going to produce a huge jump in transit ridership as well.

 

[W. K. Lis]

a lot of those car trips will likely convert to transit trips. Obviously not all of them.. but when taking a 40 minute transit commute instead of an hour long driving commute (compared to a once 30 minute driving commute) is the option, most people will take it. I expect to see strong growth on the Lakeshore west GO line and otherwise. There is talk that the recent spike in gas prices is going to produce a huge jump in transit ridership as well.

Yet there will still be those who will continue to drive. And pay for the parking. And pay for the maintenance. They may just be the ones who will pay for any tolls, as well.

 

[TOareaFan]

a lot of those car trips will likely convert to transit trips. Obviously not all of them.. but when taking a 40 minute transit commute instead of an hour long driving commute (compared to a once 30 minute driving commute) is the option, most people will take it. I expect to see strong growth on the Lakeshore west GO line and otherwise. There is talk that the recent spike in gas prices is going to produce a huge jump in transit ridership as well.

The problem is that many of the people using the Gardiner don't live near the Lakeshore line.....and when the same road congestion leads GO to announce that their bus service will be similarly affected and that routes 16/21/31 can all expect travel times 30 minutes longer than scheduled the chance of people switching to GO is limited. Sure, if you work within the train schedules maybe you switch....but if that is the case you probably are already taking the train.

Anyway, it turns out I get on the Gardiner on the way home at a pretty good spot and my drive home tonight was actually a bit shorter than normal....drive in this morning was more affected than drive home.

 

[rbt]

Sure, if you work within the train schedules maybe you switch....but if that is the case you probably are already taking the train.

If you don't use Gardiner during peak hours then the construction isn't going to have nearly the same impact. Traffic was stop and go at 7am but it was pretty damn clear at 6:30am and by 11.

The people most impacted by Gardiner congestion (hitting both am and pm peak) are the very people who best match up with current GO service.

 

[TOareaFan]

If you don't work peak hours then congestion on Gardiner isn't going to be very bad. Stop and GO at 7am but it was pretty damn clear at 6:30am.

The people most impacted by Gardiner congestion are the very people who best match up with peak GO service.

Can't speak for 6:30 a.m. (not my thing) but my normal work schedule is to aim to be in the office around 10 and work till there is nothing else to do......that usually means leaving the house around 8:45/8:50 ....today i allowed an extra bit of time and left at 8:30 (still 20 minutes after my last train would have left) and I can assure it was still very much stop and go (more of the former than the latter).

 

[innsertnamehere]

10 is much later than many (most) have to be at work.

 

[TOareaFan]

10 is much later than many (most) have to be at work.

I can assure you I am seldom on the road alone