Dan416
Senior Member
For fun I sketched out a routing for this highway, just called it the GTA West Freeway for now, https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...ll=43.763656,-79.716797&spn=0.281171,0.676346
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Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Given the recent findings I'd recommend re-signing the N-S portion of the 407 over to the new GTA West Highway (right down to the QEW), and fixing the 403 route signing.
Dan416
Senior Member
How do you propose to fix the 403 issue? It's not like we're going to renumber the western section of the 407 back to 403 at this point.
I wonder what 400 number the MTO would use for the GTA West corridor? It doesn't really follow an existing provincial highway. Would they go back to numbering them in numerical order? Assuming 408 is used for an upgraded Hwy 7, what 4XX is next?
I'm surprised they aren't planning for any kind of a link between the GTA West Corridor and the Expressway version of Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph. It would seem like a good plan to have the 407 "touch and go" at the current 401-407 interchange, and then veer back north to connect with the expanded Highway 7 in Guelph. Or if the whole highway swap with the private ETR firm doesn't work, have the GTA West Highway do that, and number the Highway 7 expansion between Kitchener and Guelph accordingly.
That is to say, the 411 (just using that name for simplicity sake, although it would work well if it went to the 400 and then was co-signed up through Barrie to the 400-11 split, with 11 eventually becoming 411) would run from the 400, through Peel to the 401-407 interchange (or just north of it), and then veer back to the north of Milton, and then cut across to the north of Guelph, and then form the expressway link between Guelph and Kitchener, terminating at the Conestoga Parkway.
Widening the 401 through Milton may seem like the better bet, but when you consider the widening required further west of there compared to a new highway leading towards the north side of Guelph, I'm not sure the 401 widening is the better option.
That is to say, the 411 (just using that name for simplicity sake, although it would work well if it went to the 400 and then was co-signed up through Barrie to the 400-11 split, with 11 eventually becoming 411) would run from the 400, through Peel to the 401-407 interchange (or just north of it), and then veer back to the north of Milton, and then cut across to the north of Guelph, and then form the expressway link between Guelph and Kitchener, terminating at the Conestoga Parkway.
Widening the 401 through Milton may seem like the better bet, but when you consider the widening required further west of there compared to a new highway leading towards the north side of Guelph, I'm not sure the 401 widening is the better option.
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Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
That's exactly what I'm proposing. This renumbering scheme has been discussed many times in this thread, not that it means that it is anywhere near the Provincial government's radar at this point. It does seem silly to have, along one route, three different signed highways.
ShonTron
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Highway 413 is often used as the unofficial designation for this new highway.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I say build it, but make it a toll highway. No new commuter highway (what this would be) should be free. Maybe charge 10-15 cents a km instead of the 407's 20 something cents, but still do it.
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As long as it's publicly owned, fine by me! Maybe only charge during peak periods or something, in order to encourage off-peak relief of the 401.
ShonTron
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And just contract the transponder technology and toll collection to 407ETR, much like how 407 East is to be built (makes sense as there's no need for additional transponders for drivers to use). I don't have any problem with private sector involvement as long as the infrastructure remains publicly owned and controlled.
Exactly. The 407 East will be a pretty good test case for publicly-owned, privately-contracted highways in the GTA. If it doesn't work very well there, the Province can look to other technologies for use on other GTA highways (including existing highways if a toll scheme is ever adopted). If it does work well, and there are minimal complaints (like people getting billed for using the private 407 when they only ever travelled the 407 East), then by all means expand it out to other highways.
marcus_a_j
Senior Member
Connecting the Guelph-Kitchener link to the GTA West corridor would require a new route through the Niagara Escarpment. Widening the 401 through the Escarpment area, an existing corridor, is preferred over a new one. A new route would go against the Niagara Escarpment Plan and Greenbelt Plan.
nfitz
Superstar
Neither the Escarpment Plan, nor the Greenbelt plan, completely preclude a new route.
One could also argue that the construction of a new expressway would significantly reduce the need for the widening of dozens of smaller county roads that cut through the escarpment, because traffic from Kitchener/Guelph into the northwestern GTA is only going to increase.
I've taken a few of the 'back roads' from Brampton to Guelph during rush hour, and they're pretty busy. It won't be too much longer before we start seeing the need for coordinated widening of these concessions and lines in order to handle that traffic volume. Even if we do widen the 401, it is significantly south of Guelph, and on the south end of Kitchener/Waterloo. Those north-south county roads, particularly around Guelph, are going to see an increasing pressure as well.
I'd rather make one big cut that dozens of smaller ones.
BurlOak
Senior Member
Even if the highway was planned to go from hiwghay 400 to Guelph, there would have to be a link down to 401 somewhere near Milton. I this this as a way of splitting the project in 2 (or 3). Phase 1 is the new highway from highway 400 to the 407/401 interchange. Phase 2 is to built a highway from the North end of Guelph, north of Acton and Georgetown, to connect with this highway. The 401 widening could be done in phases depending on whether (or when) this new highway gets built.
adding to CC's map from above:
https://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?msid...ll=43.667872,-79.979095&spn=0.487744,1.347198
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Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Building a bypass of a bypass is a great idea! I know that Phoenix and Houston are doing this, and they sure are cities to follow.