Roads: Gardiner Expressway

[Markster]

Motions 1 - Motion to Amend Item (Additional) moved by Councillor James Pasternak (Lost)

That City Council take the position that both the Don Valley Parkway and the F.G. Gardiner Expressway are not appropriately city roads and should be King's Highways similar to the existing 400 series highway system.

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2015.EX8.12

I fail to see the purpose of this.
Is it trying to subtly guilt the province into uploading the roads through a weakly worded amendment to a motion?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I fail to see the purpose of this.
Is it trying to subtly guilt the province into uploading the roads through a weakly worded amendment to a motion?

Basically. I doubt the province can be "guilted" to do it, but I am sure the proponents would love to have to province retake it for the purposes of locking the expressway in from changes for all eternity.

AoD

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Interestingly, the move the declare the DVP and Gardiner better suited as 400 series highways by Pasternak died:

Motions 1 - Motion to Amend Item (Additional) moved by Councillor James Pasternak (Lost)

That City Council take the position that both the Don Valley Parkway and the F.G. Gardiner Expressway are not appropriately city roads and should be King's Highways similar to the existing 400 series highway system.

Vote (Amend Item (Additional))
Sep-21-2015

Result: Lost Majority Required

What was the intended effect of that? Was Pasternak trying to get them re-uploaded to the province? Or just applying the same standards?

If it was the latter, I think the two new hybrid alternatives can be thrown out the window. No way those ramps meet 400-series standards.

 

[44 North]

Oh gawd, Mammo's vision - from yesterday Exec:

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-83474.pdf

Interesting. I have a very vague recollection of this being talked about, but didn't know Mammo was the politician that brought it forward. This actually makes me see him less of a pro-car ninny than some of our other peripheral suburban councillors. I don't really agree with this elevated park idea, but I think using the Gardiner corridor for a quick, reliable, cross-waterfront transit line is an idea that has merit.

 

[aquateam]

Interesting. I have a very vague recollection of this being talked about, but didn't know Mammo was the politician that brought it forward. This actually makes me see him less of a pro-car ninny than some of our other peripheral suburban councillors. I don't really agree with this elevated park idea, but I think using the Gardiner corridor for a quick, reliable, cross-waterfront transit line is an idea that has merit.

This proposal actually gives me a little more respect for Mammolitti. But at the same time, how can you possible toll an arterial road like Lakeshore? Highways are easy to toll because they are limited access, they don't intersect a road every hundred meters or so.

And turning the Gardiner into a parking garage doesn't make much sense to me either. Why would people park on the Gardiner and then take transit for the last kilometer when they could just continue driving to the destination? Park and rides are only effective for infrequent commuter rail in suburban locations, real estate is just too valuable downtown for it to be effective.

 

[44 North]

This proposal actually gives me a little more respect for Mammolitti. But at the same time, how can you possible toll an arterial road like Lakeshore? Highways are easy to toll because they are limited access, they don't intersect a road every hundred meters or so.

And turning the Gardiner into a parking garage doesn't make much sense to me either. Why would people park on the Gardiner and then take transit for the last kilometer when they could just continue driving to the destination? Park and rides are only effective for infrequent commuter rail in suburban locations, real estate is just too valuable downtown for it to be effective.

Oh, whoops. I guess I didn't read it verbatim and see anything about tolls and parking. I thought it shared similarities with that cable-stayed Gardiner Viaduct idea which floated around the media in the '00s. Now that you've brought these points to my attn, this whacky idea seems more typical of Mammoliti (though I do still like the idea of creating a transit corridor).

 

[salsa]

Interestingly, the move the declare the DVP and Gardiner better suited as 400 series highways by Pasternak died:

This might help explain why:

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Oh, whoops. I guess I didn't read it verbatim and see anything about tolls and parking. I thought it shared similarities with that cable-stayed Gardiner Viaduct idea which floated around the media in the '00s. Now that you've brought these points to my attn, this whacky idea seems more typical of Mammoliti (though I do still like the idea of creating a transit corridor).

There is already a pre-made transit corridor in any case - the Metrolinx Union Station Rail Corridor. I don't really see the point of converting the Gardiner for that purpose when the alignment is so similar.

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

This might help explain why:

Don't laugh - the only reason why it happened is because the provincial champions of such an idea didn't get elected into power. I think it was a fairly explicit election pledge by Hudak:

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...ol_to_revenue_tools_for_building_transit.html

AoD

 

[44 North]

There is already a pre-made transit corridor in any case - the Metrolinx Union Station Rail Corridor. I don't really see the point of converting the Gardiner for that purpose when the alignment is so similar.

I'm aware of USRC's existence. But I thought capacity-wise, it's nearing its limits. And I can't imagine it becoming a local/med-service RT corridor. And if it were to, I don't think it's optimally situated for waterfront service compared with the Gardiner/Lake Shore corridor.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Don't laugh - the only reason why it happened is because the provincial champions of such an idea didn't get elected into power. I think it was a fairly explicit election pledge by Hudak:

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...ol_to_revenue_tools_for_building_transit.html

AoD

I'm so so so glad we got rid of that guy.

 

[pstogios]

Can we have a discussion about expediting the in-progress repairs to the Gardiner? Similar to what was done last year after Tory won the election and sped up the last phase.

I bring this up because the Gardiner is an absolute disaster in this zone at nearly all times of day, and nearby arterial roads are severely backed up as well.

Can't we spend a little bit of money to speed things up?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Can we have a discussion about expediting the in-progress repairs to the Gardiner? Similar to what was done last year after Tory won the election and sped up the last phase.

I bring this up because the Gardiner is an absolute disaster in this zone at nearly all times of day, and nearby arterial roads are severely backed up as well.

Can't we spend a little bit of money to speed things up?

See today's Public Works Committee, Item 7.9:

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2015.PW7.9

AoD

 

[W. K. Lis]

Since the motorists don't like tolls, increase the downtown parking fees. From both garage and street parking. At the same time, increase the parking tickets. If a motorists drives away from a NO STOPPING zone, send the ticket in the mail.

 

[pstogios]

See today's Public Works Committee, Item 7.9:

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2015.PW7.9

AoD

Wonderful! Thank you! Let's hope it passes through that Committee today.