Roads: Gardiner Expressway catch-all, incl. Hybrid Design (2015-onwards)

[UtakataNoAnnex]

i dont understand why people hate Gardiner. driving on Gardiner the views are mindblowing. i would rather drive on Gardiner than driving underground. ive driven on BOston underground things, they are boring and gloomy.

Because it's an eyesore, plain and simple. But it's an eyesore we have to learn to live with, as there is no real viable, cost effective alternatives to resolve our issues with it currently as far as I am aware.

...and back on topic though: It's is the hope that projects like Pinnacle One will eventually obscure some of that eyesore instead.

 

[smably]

Seattle just did a similar project as well. Replacing the Alaskan Way Viaduct which was a prominent feature on Seattle's waterfront for years. However they used a TBM vs what Boston did with "The Big Dig" with a "cut and cover" method. So far there are no issues with the Seattle Tunnel vs the massive, and in one case deadly issues that there are with "The Big Dig" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Route_99_tunnel

"No issues" is overselling it a bit IMO -- while the quality of the construction seems fine so far, construction was delayed for two years at a cost of a couple hundred million dollars after the TBM hit a pipe and subsequently failed for possibly unrelated reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_(tunnel_boring_machine)#Damage_to_cutterhead_and_two-year_delay

 

[ushahid]

It's an eyesore when u Look at it but when u drive on it, it shows the beauty and size of 6IX.

Because it's an eyesore, plain and simple. But it's an eyesore we have to learn to live with, as there is no real viable, cost effective alternatives to resolve our issues with it currently as far as I am aware.

...and back on topic though: It's is the hope that projects like Pinnacle One will eventually obscure some of that eyesore instead.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

i dont understand why people hate Gardiner. driving on Gardiner the views are mindblowing. i would rather drive on Gardiner than driving underground. ive driven on BOston underground things, they are boring and gloomy.

Because not everyone drives - and have you actually walked underneath it with the Lakeshore combo?

AoD

 

[ushahid]

i havent walked underneath. some pics will be great.

 

[postpostmodern]

yeah, such an eyesore...

In all seriousness, the Lake Shore+Gardiner combo is awful right now, but some creative design work & strategies for pedestrian prioritization ( and lots of $$$ ) could turn the Gardiner underside into a sequence of unique spaces. It's already happening to the west - why not the east as well?

 

[donbu]

How much longer will vehicles be ICE? At some point most or all of those vehicles are going to be EVs and so no fumes. Although, as with subways, the pm 2.5 might be off the charts from tires and brakes.

Tesla can build only 200k per year in North America, which contributes to large majority of all EV production. Although it sounds a lot, but EV is still less than 2%. It's really hard to break those people's fossil fuel mind. Unless there is significant range and infrastructure improvement, ICE will still be around for another 10 ~ 20 years IMO. Let see what tomorrow's battery day Tesla has to offer.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

yeah, such an eyesore...

In all seriousness, the Lake Shore+Gardiner combo is awful right now, but some creative design work & strategies for pedestrian prioritization ( and lots of $$$ ) could turn the Gardiner underside into a sequence of unique spaces. It's already happening to the west - why not the east as well?

That's rather misleading - you want to compare the stretch of Gardiner near Fort York, where the expressway is the highest, with no Lake Shore underneath, to this?

or this?

(Google Map)

You couldn't even close Lake Shore to free up space for any landscaping along the lines of what's been done over at Bentway, much less having the same cathedral-like height offered. Let's get *real* here.

AoD

 

[ushahid]

have you seen the ones in Ottawa, those pics above look way nicer than the ones in Ottawa. anyways i think back to topic.

 

[3Dementia]

You mean the Big Dig? Isn't it like hugely notorious for being the most expensive yet the least effective public project of all times? I'd rather admire the views on Gardiner than breath toxic fumes in some cramped tunnel.

Some fun facts about Beantown's Big Dig which was a 25 year nightmare for residents:

1. Scheduled to be completed in 1998 at an estimated cost of $2.8 billion (US$7.4 billion in 2020 dollars).
Completed in December 2007 at a cost of over $8 billion - 190% over-budget ($21.5 billion in 2020 dollars)

2. Final cost expected to be $22 billion and not paid off until 2038.

3. $460 million paid in restitution by the project consortium and others (death, leaks, and misc. design flaws)

 

[Civdis]

That's rather misleading - you want to compare the stretch of Gardiner near Fort York, where the expressway is the highest, with no Lake Shore underneath, to this?

View attachment 270843

or this?

View attachment 270844
(Google Map)

You couldn't even close Lake Shore to free up space for any landscaping along the lines of what's been done over at Bentway, much less having the same cathedral-like height offered. Let's get *real* here.

AoD

The bigger eyesore is the rail corridor in my opinion. I walk under both to get to the waterfront and the rail corridor is way darker, uglier, etc. Having said that, The underneath of the Gardiner could use a lot of cleaning up.

 

[TheSixLover]

i dont understand why people hate Gardiner. driving on Gardiner the views are mindblowing. i would rather drive on Gardiner than driving underground. ive driven on BOston underground things, they are boring and gloomy.

Why are the views of drivers worth more than the convenience of people from the city?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The bigger eyesore is the rail corridor in my opinion. I walk under both to get to the waterfront and the rail corridor is way darker, uglier, etc. Having said that, The underneath of the Gardiner could use a lot of cleaning up.

The best you can do with this stretch is removal of as many on and off ramps as possible (along the lines of the York-Bay off ramp freeing up Harbour) - and possibly pulling Lake Shore out from underneath the Gardiner - which may not be doable (certainly not along the central stretch where there is no room to do so).

AoD

 

[Isotack]

Because not everyone drives - and have you actually walked underneath it with the Lake Shore combo?

AoD

You mean where the homeless live?

 

[TheSixLover]

but rather the people walking underneath it.

They don't really care about the people underneath, just trying to save some drivers 3 mins.