Peterborough Area and Highway 7 Corridor studies

[nfitz]

Speaking as someone who drives to Toronto around every 2nd weekend, and drives 7 to Toronto and the 401/416 back (or vice versa), having more sections of 7 twinned, or at least more passing lanes, would definitely be beneficial. I agree that having it twinned the whole way would be overkill, but certainly between Carleton Place and Perth, and between Peterborough and Havelock-ish.

On one hand I can see that makes sense, on the other, if you were to do that, you'd reduce the 2-lane section from the current (or recent) 234 km to only 144 km. 7 is almost a better route to 416/401 now .. and eventually if you widen from both ends, it will come to the point it is the better route, which would significantly increase the traffic, requiring the upgrade of the rest of it. I think it's a pretty much all or nothign thing.

One thing I think they could do short-term to help relieve the 401 is to raise the speed limit on 7 from 80 to 90. If you get stuck behind someone actually going the speed limit, it can make the drive pretty painful.

I'm not sure most of the residents in the area want to relieve the 401 onto a 2-lane road.

Though I've always wondered why provincial highways are only 80 km/hr here; they are 90 km/hr in some other provinces, such as Quebec (even though the road standards here seem better). Even county roads are 90 km/hr in some Ontario counties.

 

[ShonTron]

Though I've always wondered why provincial highways are only 80 km/hr here; they are 90 km/hr in some other provinces, such as Quebec (even though the road standards here seem better). Even county roads are 90 km/hr in some Ontario counties.

In Elgin, Kent, Huron and Lambton Counties, there are former provincial highways that, when assumed by the county, the speed limit was raised to 90. One should note that most parts of these counties (as well as Essex, Middlesex, Bruce and Perth) are very flat.

 

[gweed123]

On one hand I can see that makes sense, on the other, if you were to do that, you'd reduce the 2-lane section from the current (or recent) 234 km to only 144 km. 7 is almost a better route to 416/401 now .. and eventually if you widen from both ends, it will come to the point it is the better route, which would significantly increase the traffic, requiring the upgrade of the rest of it. I think it's a pretty much all or nothign thing.

That does make some sense I guess. However, only a portion of 7's traffic is actually thru-traffic (meaning going all the way from Ottawa to Peterborough). A lot of it is either commuter traffic (particularly from Perth and Carleton Place to Ottawa), or cottage traffic from Ottawa and Toronto. By 20 mins west of Perth, most of the cottage traffic has dispersed (Christie Lake, Silver Lake, etc), likewise going east from Peterborough. Between Silver Lake and Havelock however, the majority of the traffic is thru-traffic. I think through this section, a few more passing lanes would be all you needed.

I'm not sure most of the residents in the area want to relieve the 401 onto a 2-lane road.

Most of the residents along that road are the ones driving it at 110ish

Though I've always wondered why provincial highways are only 80 km/hr here; they are 90 km/hr in some other provinces, such as Quebec (even though the road standards here seem better). Even county roads are 90 km/hr in some Ontario counties.

Highway 17 east of Ottawa is 90 km/h nearly the entire way (except for in towns). The extra 10 km/h doesn't really make a difference in terms of noise (can anyone really tell the sound difference between a truck doing 80 and a truck doing 90?), but makes a significant difference in terms of travel time.

 

[nfitz]

That does make some sense I guess. However, only a portion of 7's traffic is actually thru-traffic (meaning going all the way from Ottawa to Peterborough). A lot of it is either commuter traffic (particularly from Perth and Carleton Place to Ottawa), or cottage traffic from Ottawa and Toronto. By 20 mins west of Perth, most of the cottage traffic has dispersed (Christie Lake, Silver Lake, etc), likewise going east from Peterborough. Between Silver Lake and Havelock however, the majority of the traffic is thru-traffic. I think through this section, a few more passing lanes would be all you needed.

I guess it depends on how much traffic would be induced. Particularly how much truck traffic would be induced.

Highway 17 east of Ottawa is 90 km/h nearly the entire way (except for in towns).

That's a county road through that section, not provincial. I haven't driven that way since it was downloaded; it used to be an 80 km/hr limit.

 

[MisterF]

Passing lanes every 5 km or so have been on the books for a long time but it seems to take forever to design and build them. They've been designing the ones in the Kaladar area for the better part of a decade.

In Elgin, Kent, Huron and Lambton Counties, there are former provincial highways that, when assumed by the county, the speed limit was raised to 90. One should note that most parts of these counties (as well as Essex, Middlesex, Bruce and Perth) are very flat.

True, but many Quebec highways with a speed limit of 90 are anything but flat. Ontario has the strange distinction of having some of the highest road standards and lowest speed limits in the western world.

 

[gweed123]

I guess it depends on how much traffic would be induced. Particularly how much truck traffic would be induced.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ottawa-Toronto isn't really a major trucking route. I mean, if it were, the 416 would be full of trucks. But driving down it most times, you'll maybe pass a couple trucks on your way, that's it. The main truck route is along the Quebec City-Windsor corridor (but mainly turning off around Montreal to go to the US). 7 does see some truck traffic, but it's far from substantial.

That's a county road through that section, not provincial. I haven't driven that way since it was downloaded; it used to be an 80 km/hr limit.

It still is 80 km/h. Why? No idea. The road up to my cottage in Quebec is in half as good of condition and is still 90 km/h. It could be because it's such a great cash grab for the Province in terms of speeding tickets. The OPP patrol that highway like mad.

 

[nfitz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ottawa-Toronto isn't really a major trucking route. I mean, if it were, the 416 would be full of trucks.

Yeah, that's probably a fair comment ... Though if there was a decent river crossing in Ottawa, and they extended the 50 from the 15 to Jolliette (which was once planned but long since cancelled), it may well serve as a faster route for trucks to by-pass Montreal and run through Ottawa instead, heading to Quebec City and the east. But that's probably a long ways in the future.

It still is 80 km/h. Why? No idea. The road up to my cottage in Quebec is in half as good of condition and is still 90 km/h. It could be because it's such a great cash grab for the Province in terms of speeding tickets. The OPP patrol that highway like mad.

And they enforce 80? I don't think there's a 2-lane provincial highway in southern Ontario that is higher than 80; and they don't seem particularly enforced.

 

[Haljackey]

True, but many Quebec highways with a speed limit of 90 are anything but flat. Ontario has the strange distinction of having some of the highest road standards and lowest speed limits in the western world.

Quoted for truth. Ontario has had the safest roads in NA for many, many years in a row. That's a good thing. However our speed limits are really low as a result.

A lot of the 400-series have a design speed of 130-150km/h, yet they are posted at 100km/h. Why is this? Everywhere else is faster than us and their road design standards aren't as good. US can go 70MPH (115-120km/h) and Eurpoe is mainly 130km/h. Make the 400-series 110 or 120... please! That way people may actually obey the speed limits.

And they enforce 80? I don't think there's a 2-lane provincial highway in southern Ontario that is higher than 80; and they don't seem particularly enforced.

You know, I believe that. In the London Area all the "King's Highways" are 80 and the country/county roads are 90 and are in much worse shape compared to the provincial highways. I could see a 90 limit on the King's Highways if the road was a divided 4 lane expressway (not a freeway).



Take the Veteran's Memorial Parkway in London as an example. It's 90km/h expressway with a divided highway and intersections. Could be a good design for Highway 7.

 

[gweed123]

Yeah, that's probably a fair comment ... Though if there was a decent river crossing in Ottawa, and they extended the 50 from the 15 to Jolliette (which was once planned but long since cancelled), it may well serve as a faster route for trucks to by-pass Montreal and run through Ottawa instead, heading to Quebec City and the east. But that's probably a long ways in the future.

I was actually just over on the Quebec side of the river, directly across from Hawkesbury a couple weekends ago. The 50 has been extended from Montreal to that point, with construction underway heading east. I also know they have been steadily progressing the highway westward from Masson. They're only building 1 of the two sides of the highway, but all the overpasses are being built to accomodate a twinned highway (cost reduction I'm guessing).

In order for the route you described to be truly effective, there would need to be a 416-Aylmer bridge, or something in that vicinity. The only immediately planned bridge in Ottawa right now is to connect Highway 174 to Highway 50 via the Rockliffe Parkway, just west of Orleans (through the Greenbelt). More details available here: http://www.ncrcrossings.ca/en/index.php . An interesting thought though for sure. A by-pass around Montreal would be very useful, although admittedly a by-pass around the south side would be more useful. This would connect Highway 20 south and east of Montreal to Highway 20 (Highway 401 in Ontario) heading into Montreal, that way you wouldn't have to go through the west island and over the Champlain bridge in order to re-access 20. That route at some times of day can be a nightmare.

And they enforce 80? I don't think there's a 2-lane provincial highway in southern Ontario that is higher than 80; and they don't seem particularly enforced.

They sure do. Well, they enforce 95+, but since the average traffic speed on there is 90ish anyway, it doesn't take much over that.

 

[gweed123]

Quoted for truth. Ontario has had the safest roads in NA for many, many years in a row. That's a good thing. However our speed limits are really low as a result.

A lot of the 400-series have a design speed of 130-150km/h, yet they are posted at 100km/h. Why is this? Everywhere else is faster than us and their road design standards aren't as good. US can go 70MPH (115-120km/h) and Eurpoe is mainly 130km/h. Make the 400-series 110 or 120... please! That way people may actually obey the speed limits.

Good call. Driving in NB and NS is much better, because their highways are 110, as opposed to 100. You can do 120 (a comfortable speed), and not feel like a criminal. And most northern states (NY, VE, MA, PA, etc) are 65MPH, southern states (VA, WV, NC, SC) are 70MPH.

You know, I believe that. In the London Area all the "King's Highways" are 80 and the country/county roads are 90 and are in much worse shape compared to the provincial highways. I could see a 90 limit on the King's Highways if the road was a divided 4 lane expressway (not a freeway).


Take the Veteran's Memorial Parkway in London as an example. It's 90km/h expressway with a divided highway and intersections. Could be a good design for Highway 7.]

Looks like a lot of the State Highways in the US. Still twinned with a centre median, but no grade-separation. Would certainly be a good compromise.

 

[ShonTron]

True, but many Quebec highways with a speed limit of 90 are anything but flat. Ontario has the strange distinction of having some of the highest road standards and lowest speed limits in the western world.

Thanks for reminding me. I just drove a section of Quebec Route 112 that parallels Autoroute 10. I was amazed at the 90 km/h speed limits on this winding route in the lovely and very hilly Eastern Townships, while the Autoroute was only posted at 10 km/h higher.

 

[Dan416]

I say we go back to using miles per hour and use that as an excuse to bring the limits back to normal. Then we can be like the US and UK in using miles and won't feel confused by mph when watching Top Gear anymore

 

[MisterF]

I say we go back to using miles per hour and use that as an excuse to bring the limits back to normal. Then we can be like the US and UK in using miles and won't feel confused by mph when watching Top Gear anymore

It took me a while to figure out what "naught to 60" meant

 

[nfitz]

A lot of the 400-series have a design speed of 130-150km/h

I was not aware any of the 400-series highways having a design speed over 130 km/hr. Which one are you thinking?

 

[unimaginative2]

In order for the route you described to be truly effective, there would need to be a 416-Aylmer bridge, or something in that vicinity. The only immediately planned bridge in Ottawa right now is to connect Highway 174 to Highway 50 via the Rockliffe Parkway, just west of Orleans (through the Greenbelt). More details available here: http://www.ncrcrossings.ca/en/index.php . An interesting thought though for sure. A by-pass around Montreal would be very useful, although admittedly a by-pass around the south side would be more useful. This would connect Highway 20 south and east of Montreal to Highway 20 (Highway 401 in Ontario) heading into Montreal, that way you wouldn't have to go through the west island and over the Champlain bridge in order to re-access 20. That route at some times of day can be a nightmare.

They're building the Autoroute 30 as a southern bypass of Montreal.