Pacific Mall Expansion + Hotel (Living Realty, 19s?, Petroff)

[bAuHaUs]

THIS IS Toronto ... sadly enough, we never built infrastructure in advance of the need arising ... it appears we typically are reactive rather than proactive when it comes to public transit

And this is one of the reasons why Toronto will never be a world-class city.

 

[maestro]

What exactly does the Sheppard subway or the extension of the Downsview line represent? The past 25 years of explosive population growth and little investment has left us with a backlog of transit deficiencies that only a world event in our backyard or a decade of stagnant population growth could possibly remedy.

 

[interchange42]

Blah blah blah.

42

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

THIS IS Toronto ... sadly enough, we never built infrastructure in advance of the need arising ... it appears we typically are reactive rather than proactive when it comes to public transit

Actually, this is also a case where the planning process being perverted - even if there a plan for transit, there is no guarantees of any kind that the municipality will a) be able to force the developer of these malls to build near transit nodes, when the focus is on parking and b) that it is politically palatable to have the developer do so, when one is more interested in having development per se (and all the potential direct and indirect benefits to incumbent politicans). And in this case - don't forget, the mall proper is in Markham - so it's yet another layer of potential jurisdictional wrangling.

Wait, this IS very Toronto indeed.

AoD

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Pacific Mall is already at a transit node...well, at a transit node in progress. The GO station exists and is set for service improvements relatively soon, even if transit on Steeles or Kennedy isn't improved any time soon.

Seems to me that this stretch of Steeles Ave from Kennedy to Markham Rd (would probably stretch it westward to 404) will require its own LRT one of these days, especially if all these ambitious projects see the light of day. I wonder why planners continue to put the cart before the horse....the logical thing to do is to built the right infrastructure first, so that people and commerce can flow (eg. streetcar row or elevated LRT line), and then build-up with density and mixed-use projects.

How is 4km of light rail world class and logical?

 

[waterloowarrior]

Actually, this is also a case where the planning process being perverted - even if there a plan for transit, there is no guarantees of any kind that the municipality will a) be able to force the developer of these malls to build near transit nodes, when the focus is on parking and b) that it is politically palatable to have the developer do so, when one is more interested in having development per se (and all the potential direct and indirect benefits to incumbent politicans). And in this case - don't forget, the mall proper is in Markham - so it's yet another layer of potential jurisdictional wrangling.

It's possible that they will be able to... Ottawa for instance requires that any shopping centre of over 50,000 sq m GLA should be located at an existing or future rapid transit station, and also requires the rapid transit station to be incorporated into the design of the site. It also has maximum parking space limits near rapid transit stations. Of course like you said the political will is another story.

 

[alklay]

I am not sure how Go transit is going to help with traffic on the area's busiest days around the mall, namely Saturday and Sunday. And Go transit is certainly not a 'rapid transit' option for most of the population in the city or surrounding burbs.

With Landmark, Remington and Splendid coming online during the next 5 years (and yes, most of these developments will take that long to get off the ground) this area requires some major improvements for transportation (including and probably specifically cars). Otherwise, the traffic nighmares of Yorkdale on any weekend (including backups on the 401) are going to look like a quiet Sunday in Midland Ontario, in comparison. And Yorkdale has its own Subway stop.

 

[Solaris]

hopefully with the implementation of GO all-day 2-way service in the very near future on the Stouffville line will help alleviate the transportation / lack of transit issues in this area generated from the traffic of all the proposed developments

 

[rpgr]

Looks like they are copying IFC mall in HK

http://www.ifc.com.hk/english/mall.aspx

 

[EXgeMMy]

What's interesting to note is how this expansion directly affects the Remington redesign of Market Village.

There was talk in the Market Village thread how there was no chance the owners of Pacific mall would all of a sudden a tree lined pedestrian walkway in front of the mall. These renders just proves that.

As far as Splendid China Tower is concerned, I walk into there about once a month as there are 2 stores I have to go to. Half the mall sits empty. I'm sure they are all sold but the reality is, there is no foot traffic in that mall.

It's almost as bad as Oriental Center at Brimley/Sheppard.

 

[Solaris]

Looks like they are copying IFC mall in HK

http://www.ifc.com.hk/english/mall.aspx

minor differences, but IFC in HK contain a Four Seasons Hotel, subway station, and high end stores (Bally, CERRUTI 1881, D&G, Escada, Hugo Boss, Lane Crawford, Prade, Salvatore Ferragamo, Tiffany & Co, Versace, Valentino) comparable to Toronto's Bloor Street in that mall ... just minor details, I know ~

 

[Hairball]

Doesn't anyone think there is an oversaturation of Chinese malls? I barely go to Pacific Mall as it is. While redevelopment is nice, I kind of wonder whether or not there's any financial sense.

The nearby Splendid China mall is already practically empty most times, the Landmark down Steeles looks like it will never be built. And then we have a scattering of other malls. Unless they are targeting the mainstream market I don't see how this can be successful.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I am not sure how Go transit is going to help with traffic on the area's busiest days around the mall, namely Saturday and Sunday. And Go transit is certainly not a 'rapid transit' option for most of the population in the city or surrounding burbs.

With Landmark, Remington and Splendid coming online during the next 5 years (and yes, most of these developments will take that long to get off the ground) this area requires some major improvements for transportation (including and probably specifically cars). Otherwise, the traffic nighmares of Yorkdale on any weekend (including backups on the 401) are going to look like a quiet Sunday in Midland Ontario, in comparison. And Yorkdale has its own Subway stop.

We're talking about an *improved* GO system years from now, Debbie Downer, not just 5 inbound trains in the am and 5 outbound trains in the pm today.

Doesn't anyone think there is an oversaturation of Chinese malls? I barely go to Pacific Mall as it is. While redevelopment is nice, I kind of wonder whether or not there's any financial sense.

The nearby Splendid China mall is already practically empty most times, the Landmark down Steeles looks like it will never be built. And then we have a scattering of other malls. Unless they are targeting the mainstream market I don't see how this can be successful.

What do you think the mainstream market is in the NE part of the city? That market wants more than just Suzy Shier and New York Fries.

Plenty of non-Chinese people use Chinese malls, even if you don't. I don't play hockey, but it's not like I think we have too many arenas.

 

[Solaris]

Unless they are targeting the mainstream market I don't see how this can be successful.

When was the last time you looked at Toronto's demographics stats? There is a HUGE Asian population base in the GTA !!

 

[Hairball]

When was the last time you looked at Toronto's demographics stats? There is a HUGE Asian population base in the GTA !!

Yes I know of the demographics, but I'm just not convinced it is necessarily worthwhile because there are so many malls as is, and they aren't necessarily busy with traffic.