North American Transit System Ranking

[JayBeeGooner]

I don't understand how San Francisco ranks higher than Toronto.

Neither is the Bay Area well connected nor is the city proper served by much more than buses (where Toronto has much more diversity in modes of transportation).

San Francisco is a really small city served by buses, trolleybus, modernized streetcar/pre-metro system, cable car, and regional express rail. SF has a LOT of transit for it's size. And the city is very walkable

 

[JayBeeGooner]

Bingo.

I'd say that the four biggest strentghts of Toronto's transit system are

1. High frequency
2. Extensive coverage
3. Flat rate travel to anywhere
4. Integration (connectivity) of bus/streetcar/lrt routes.

All are things you won't find on any map.

I've also noticed that there isn't the stigma over taking public transit in toronto that there are in many other NA cities. There appears to be a significant portion of TTC riders who could afford a car and who's commute would be faster with one who forfeit car ownership in favour of public transit. I don't think you'll see this in too many places in NA. However I'm not sure if this a Canada vs USA thing or if its because of the quality of public transit in the cities.

The key is a flat rate. Going to a distance based system is silly, IMO.

 

[CapitalSeven]

I think there are a few flaws in that ranking. Ottawa has "some or minimal transit options"? Really? Transit has a very high modal share there, and a huge portion of downtown commuters ride the buses, with fast service from the suburbs.

 

[TOareaFan]

The second best in the GTA is - somewhat surprisingly - Brampton. This is probably due to decent coverage, reasonable (by suburban standards) service standards and relative speed of trips - which is likely helped by the switch to a grid system.

I don't understand this:



There's only one agency - Mississauga Transit (marketing name is Miway), unless you count the 58 Malton and the various Brampton Transit buses that terminate in Mississauga. But excluding BT 18 and 502 isn't going to make much of a difference. Mississauga's rank is still really low, lower than it should be, which makes me think there was a major error calculating Mississauga's value - it should be around Brampton's value.

However, these transit scores are like Walk Scores - they really depend on what neighbourhood you live.

Not really surprised that Brampton ranked so high relative to other GTA cities. On days when I decide (for whatever reason) not to drive downtown I quite literally don't drive. The ease in which I can bus from a short walk of my house to the GO Station with good frequencies and ease really surprises my work colleagues from other burbs.......they claim that they just could not rely on local transit to get them to/from the GO station in their various burbs.

Mississauga has to be a big screw up by the survey folks cause, as you say, I would think they would rank much higher than 1/3 of Brampton and would expect them to be around the BT score or a bit higher.

I will say, that living in a city that seems to only get bad press, it is good to see that our local investment and commitment to public transit is being recognized. It is not easy to change habits in a car driven/designed suburb and there still is a lot to do....but it is actually noticable on a day by day basis how the transit system is growing.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I can just see Rob Ford's reaction:

NOOOOO! I had them try to reduce TTC service 10% and the TTC is still the best in Canada!!!
​

It should also be remembered that San Fransisco has a farebox recovery ratio of 51.3% (2011), New York City 55.5% (2009), and Toronto has 73% (2013). A farebox recovery ratio is the fraction of operating expenses which are met by the fares paid by passengers.

If Toronto did not have the service cuts under Ford and was better subsidized from the city, province, and federal governments, it could be tops in all of North America.

 

[rbt]

I can just see Rob Ford's reaction:

NOOOOO! I had them try to reduce TTC service 10% and the TTC is still the best in Canada!!!
​

It should also be remembered that San Fransisco has a farebox recovery ratio of 51.3% (2011), New York City 55.5% (2009), and Toronto has 73% (2013). A farebox recovery ratio is the fraction of operating expenses which are met by the fares paid by passengers.

TTC hugely outspends San Francisco (BART and Muni together) on capital.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Speaking in pretty broad terms, I think a lot of transit usage in Canada vs. the US is a result of the stigma of transit in the latter. In America, it's thought of that "only poor people ride the bus" in a lot of places (again, not all - see New York for an example of the opposite), while commuting modes are a healthier mix of car and transit up here. Preferably that mix will over the years continue to lean further towards transit, of course.

Also what was mentioned above, that it's generally cheaper to drive and own a car in the US than Canada, is completely true. Gas prices alone demonstrate this: a quick search online today shows that gas prices in America average between $3.60 and $3.70 per American gallon, which is ~3.79 litres, so barely $1/litre at most. Whereas in Toronto at least it's a novelty if gas is lower than $1.20/litre. Of course then you take into account difference between USD and CAD, but that's somewhat nominal usually.

 

[TOareaFan]

Speaking in pretty broad terms, I think a lot of transit usage in Canada vs. the US is a result of the stigma of transit in the latter. In America, it's thought of that "only poor people ride the bus" in a lot of places (again, not all - see New York for an example of the opposite), while commuting modes are a healthier mix of car and transit up here. Preferably that mix will over the years continue to lean further towards transit, of course.

Not sure that is entirely true. If you look at New York, as an example, people of all income stratas, take trains and subways to work. The old joke in New York is, "if you are visiting NewYork and don't like the traffic....don't blame New Yorkers...they don't drive." In my daily work life I spend a lot of time with wealthy/successful lawyers/bankers/investment guys most of whom live and work in the city and couldn't find their way to public transit if their life depended on it. We have guys here in our office who live in Bloor West Village....drive to work....I have friends/colleagues who live within an rock throw of the Sheppard Subway and work in various towers....drive to work......and they all make disparaging remarks about public transit.

One example (but it happens a lot)......On the coldest night of our coldest snap of this cold winter, I waited outside the ACC for clients that I was taking to the a hockey game and we had dinner reservations at one of the restos inside....I had the tickets so had to wait outside til they got there.....45 minutes late because "traffic was hell and then we had trouble finding parking"....they were coming from their offices that are a 3 minute stroll from a subway stop in mid-town....."you know you could have taken the subway"...."yeah, but who does that...we have a car and there are too many people down there".

When you compare the attitude to public transit in Toronto with our peer cities in the states...I think we have a long way to go in terms of the "stigma" attached to public transit usage.

 

[gweed123]

Interesting that Chicago ranked so poorly, given how there was a lot of bandwith space here on UT about Chicago's "amazing" transit system with 8 lines, where there are never delays and where you can whisk to your destination in 15 minutes.

The grass is always greener, I suppose.

I used their transit system to get around when I was there last summer. The rapid transit is pretty good (although I didn't know that the closest subway station on the Red Line was closed for a massive upgrade), but the bus system left something to be desired for sure. Even through pretty dense neighbourhoods, the frequency wasn't very good.

I'd take Chicago's RT system over Toronto's, but I'd definitely take Toronto's surface system over Chicago's.

 

[gweed123]

I think there are a few flaws in that ranking. Ottawa has "some or minimal transit options"? Really? Transit has a very high modal share there, and a huge portion of downtown commuters ride the buses, with fast service from the suburbs.

Agreed. I was surprised with that too. I live in the mid-west end, and during rush hour it takes me 40 minutes by bus to get downtown, and driving would likely take me upwards of 30 (maybe 20 if traffic was good).

I don't know if it's still the case, but at least up until recently Ottawa had the highest transit modal share of any mid-size city in North America.

 

[ehlow]

Not sure that is entirely true. If you look at New York, as an example, people of all income stratas, take trains and subways to work. The old joke in New York is, "if you are visiting NewYork and don't like the traffic....don't blame New Yorkers...they don't drive." In my daily work life I spend a lot of time with wealthy/successful lawyers/bankers/investment guys most of whom live and work in the city and couldn't find their way to public transit if their life depended on it. We have guys here in our office who live in Bloor West Village....drive to work....I have friends/colleagues who live within an rock throw of the Sheppard Subway and work in various towers....drive to work......and they all make disparaging remarks about public transit.

One example (but it happens a lot)......On the coldest night of our coldest snap of this cold winter, I waited outside the ACC for clients that I was taking to the a hockey game and we had dinner reservations at one of the restos inside....I had the tickets so had to wait outside til they got there.....45 minutes late because "traffic was hell and then we had trouble finding parking"....they were coming from their offices that are a 3 minute stroll from a subway stop in mid-town....."you know you could have taken the subway"...."yeah, but who does that...we have a car and there are too many people down there".

When you compare the attitude to public transit in Toronto with our peer cities in the states...I think we have a long way to go in terms of the "stigma" attached to public transit usage.

That will change but it will take time. During that time Toronto's population will keep growing and becoming denser, traffic will continue getting worse, and our transit system will expand, pushing more and more people to take transit (which is already happening).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Not sure that is entirely true. If you look at New York, as an example, people of all income stratas, take trains and subways to work. The old joke in New York is, "if you are visiting NewYork and don't like the traffic....don't blame New Yorkers...they don't drive." In my daily work life I spend a lot of time with wealthy/successful lawyers/bankers/investment guys most of whom live and work in the city and couldn't find their way to public transit if their life depended on it. We have guys here in our office who live in Bloor West Village....drive to work....I have friends/colleagues who live within an rock throw of the Sheppard Subway and work in various towers....drive to work......and they all make disparaging remarks about public transit.

One example (but it happens a lot)......On the coldest night of our coldest snap of this cold winter, I waited outside the ACC for clients that I was taking to the a hockey game and we had dinner reservations at one of the restos inside....I had the tickets so had to wait outside til they got there.....45 minutes late because "traffic was hell and then we had trouble finding parking"....they were coming from their offices that are a 3 minute stroll from a subway stop in mid-town....."you know you could have taken the subway"...."yeah, but who does that...we have a car and there are too many people down there".

When you compare the attitude to public transit in Toronto with our peer cities in the states...I think we have a long way to go in terms of the "stigma" attached to public transit usage.

I'd love to see the income distribution of TTC riders vs. that of American systems. From my experience I can say there are a substantial amount of people who could easily afford a car who still opt to take public transit in Toronto.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'd love to see the income distribution of TTC riders vs. that of American systems. From my experience I can say there are a substantial amount of people who could easily afford a car who still opt to take public transit in Toronto.

The majority of new yorkers don't have cars and live in apartments? Is that true of Toronto?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I guess this is good for all the complainers. But looking at the comments, Toronto will never do well enough for some of the people that live in the area.

 

[ehlow]

I'd love to see the income distribution of TTC riders vs. that of American systems. From my experience I can say there are a substantial amount of people who could easily afford a car who still opt to take public transit in Toronto.

Oh yeah, tons of people already own cars and still take transit, especially if the cost of parking alone is more expensive than a transit pass.