New Transit Funding Sources

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I actually like gas taxes better than road tolls.
If the behaviour you/we are trying to tax is driving....then tax all driving....not just those that drive on specific roads.
Why should driving into Toronto on the Gardiner be taxed but driving into Toronto on the Queensway be free?
Road tolls are like cigarette taxes....but only charged if you smoke at one corner but not at another.

The behaviour you are trying to tax isn't driving per se - but use of a high speed, limited access and limited capacity route to a specific area. Queensway isn't that.

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think it was Mel Lastman, (correct me if I'm wrong) that mused about Toronto becoming it's own Province. There was much ridicule of the idea, but I always though it was a very legitimate proposal. Toronto's issues are not Windsor or Winisk's issues. Cornwall and Kenora have different problems than the problems at Yonge and Bloor.

Unfortunately as much as there is merit to the idea, it's a non-starter constitutionally. If the province is remotely inclined to provide the GTHA/Golden Horseshoe with autonomy and regional governance, it could have done so within its' powers. It chose not to.

AoD

 

[Cobra]

I'm also sick of this Liberal approach of treating Toronto on the same level as every other municipalities. We should be getting the exact same amount that the tolls would have brought us and THEN you distribute the balance to the rest of the province.

At least Montreal got it right. I got a recognition from the National Assembly (Quebec Parliament) that it was a "Metropole" and that Montreal has a "special" status that ensure that its not treated as every other cities and towns in the province

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm also sick of this Liberal approach of treating Toronto on the same level as every other municipalities. We should be getting the exact same amount that the tolls would have brought us and THEN you distribute the balance to the rest of the province.

At least Montreal got it right. I got a recognition from the National Assembly (Quebec Parliament) that it was a "Metropole" and that Montreal has a "special" status that ensure that its not treated as every other cities and towns in the province

Historically all previous governments have used the same approach - some without even the velvet glove (megacity, anyone?). Expecting the two other provincial parties to do otherwise is wishful thinking. Think where they stand on this very issue of tolling.

AoD

 

[crs1026]

I actually like gas taxes better than road tolls.

If the behaviour you/we are trying to tax is driving....then tax all driving....not just those that drive on specific roads.

Why should driving into Toronto on the Gardiner be taxed but driving into Toronto on the Queensway be free?

Road tolls are like cigarette taxes....but only charged if you smoke at one corner but not at another.

We are likely on a path to a vehicular access permit for the whole city center, but it will be another decade.

Your not-on-this-corner analogy fits, in the sense that we don't want all those cars getting off at Kipling or Lawrence and driving on city streets to avoid the toll gantry.

We simply don't want the extra cars coming into the city at all.

- Paul

 

[Cobra]

Does the city needs a provincial approval for a London Congestion Charge?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Does the city needs a provincial approval for a London Congestion Charge?

I think it does - highway is defined in the City of Toronto Act as:

What constitutes highway
31.The following are highways unless they have been closed:
1. All highways of the City that existed on the day before this section comes into force.
2. All highways established by city by-law on or after January 1, 2003.
3. All highways transferred to the City under the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act.
4. All road allowances, highways, streets and lanes shown on a registered plan of subdivision in the City. 2006, c. 11, Sched. A, s. 31.

And the section refers to tolling "highways"

Regulations re toll highways
116. (1) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations providing for any matters which, in the opinion of the Lieutenant Governor in Council, are necessary or desirable for the purposes of section 41, including,

(a) requiring the City to obtain the approval of any person or body before designating, operating or maintaining a highway as a toll highway;

(b) providing for criteria which must be met before the City can designate, operate or maintain a highway as a toll highway;

(c) imposing conditions and limitations on the powers of the City to designate, operate or maintain a highway as a toll highway;

(d) granting the City additional powers with respect to the operation and maintenance of a toll highway, including powers with respect to the collection and enforcement of tolls imposed for the use of a toll highway;

(e) without limiting clause (d), providing that the provisions of the Capital Investment Plan Act, 1993 and the regulations under that Act which relate to toll highways apply to the City with such changes as are prescribed;

(f) establishing process requirements with respect to the designation, operation and maintenance of a highway as a toll highway, including requiring the City to provide notice to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing or any other person or body of its intention to designate a highway as a toll highway;

(g) providing that the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing or any other person or body who receives notice under clause (f) may prohibit the City from making the designation even though the designation is otherwise authorized under the regulation. 2006, c. 11, Sched. A, s. 116 (1).

AoD

 

[Edward Skira]

News Release

Ontario Providing More Transit Funding for Cities and Towns Across Province
January 27, 2017

Supporting More Travel Options, Improving Local Transit for Commuters and Families
Ontario is boosting support for nearly 100 cities and towns across the province, providing them with reliable, long-term funding to improve and expand their local transit systems and offer more travel options for commuters and families.

Premier Kathleen Wynne and Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca were at York Region Transit's Richmond Hill facility today to announce the new investment.

The province has heard directly from people who are frustrated by their daily commute and from municipalities that are struggling to meet their transit needs. In response to these concerns, starting in 2019, Ontario will be increasing funding for local transit through an enhancement to the existing gas tax program, doubling the municipal share from two cents per litre to four cents by 2021. There will be no increase in the tax that people in Ontario pay on gasoline as a result of the enhancement to the program.

Cities and towns receiving the new funding are able to plan for and make major infrastructure upgrades, buy additional transit vehicles, add more routes, extend hours of service, implement fare strategies and improve accessibility.

Ontario recognizes that commuters need reliable transit options before revenue-generating measures such as road tolls are implemented. For example, the ongoing GO Regional Express Rail project will not be completed and in service before 2024. That is why the province is not supporting plans for municipal road tolls at this time. This new investment, along with Ontario's $31.5-billion transit and transportation investment across the province, will support more buses in cities like Thunder Bay and Windsor, new LRT lines in Waterloo and Ottawa, and GO Regional Express Rail in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area, including SmartTrack in Toronto.

Supporting stronger public transit systems is part of our plan to create jobs, grow our economy and help people in their everyday lives.


QUICK FACTS

• Funding will increase to 2.5 cents per litre in 2019–20, 3 cents in 2020–21 and 4 cents in 2021–22.
• This year the province committed $334.5 million in gas tax funding to 99 municipalities. This amount is expected to increase to about $401.3 million in 2019–20, $481.5 million in 2020–21 and $642 million in 2021–22.
• Ontario made its gas tax program permanent in 2013 to provide a stable source of funding for municipalities.
• One bus takes up to 40 vehicles off the road and keeps 25 tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions out of the atmosphere each year.
• Research shows that every $100 million of public infrastructure investment in Ontario boosts GDP by $114 million, particularly in the construction and manufacturing sectors.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Note the timeframe for the increases...it's not worth the bytes it occupied.

AoD

 

[rbt]

I think it was Mel Lastman, (correct me if I'm wrong) that mused about Toronto becoming it's own Province. There was much ridicule of the idea, but I always though it was a very legitimate proposal. Toronto's issues are not Windsor or Winisk's issues. Cornwall and Kenora have different problems than the problems at Yonge and Bloor.

Toronto is it's own province, called Ontario, with a few bits outside Toronto added on. The Toronto Urban Area + satellite cities (like Barrie, KWC, ...) controls about 60% of Queens Park.

Ottawa has a legitimate grudge with Queens Park but Toronto is getting exactly what it wants; you just don't agree with your neighbours like the Fords on what Toronto wants.

 

[TOareaFan]

I'm also sick of this Liberal approach of treating Toronto on the same level as every other municipalities. We should be getting the exact same amount that the tolls would have brought us and THEN you distribute the balance to the rest of the province.

Which number would you have used as "the exact same amount"?

The city expected to get between $160 million and $300 million per year if the toll was $2 to $5.20 per trip, but could have raised that charge to deal with inflation and other city needs.

The Star is reporting that Toronto will get about $170 million from the gas tax increase.

At least Montreal got it right. I got a recognition from the National Assembly (Quebec Parliament) that it was a "Metropole" and that Montreal has a "special" status that ensure that its not treated as every other cities and towns in the province

Honest question, does it give them more than the City of Toronto Act which, you know, ensures that Toronto is not treated as every other city in the province?

 

[TOareaFan]

Note the timeframe for the increases...it's not worth the bytes it occupied.

AoD

it says, quite simply, "we blocked your toll initiative...now you may be inclined to make things tough for us during the next provincial election by reminding people in Toronto that we blocked your toll initiative, but keep in mind if we don't get elected you may not see the revenue we propose to give you to replace that toll initiative....so, be nice and we will get the revenue to you after we are re-elected but, in any event, before your tolling would have happened".

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

it says, quite simply, "we blocked your toll initiative...now you may be inclined to make things tough for us during the next provincial election by reminding people in Toronto that we blocked your toll initiative, but keep in mind if we don't get elected you may not see the revenue we propose to give you to replace that toll initiative....so, be nice and we will get the revenue to you after we are re-elected but, in any event, before your tolling would have happened".

You can't really threaten a deadman. She doesn't have the currency for it.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

You can't really threaten a deadman. She doesn't have the currency for it.

AoD

not saying she does or that it will work....but that is exactly what she has done today......killed something the city proposed but replaced it with something else that will generate income at the low end of the city initiative estimate....but timed the changes carefully so that while they kick in earlier than the city's initiative would...they won't kick in until after she is re-elected.

 

[crs1026]

Note the timeframe for the increases...it's not worth the bytes it occupied.

AoD

Well, the toll wasn't going to arrive for a while either. But she is sidestepping the same funding gap for DRL etc

The reality is, someone is going to tap the Ontario taxpayer for more. Ontario is way overextended already. She doesn't have the money sitting idle in her top drawer.

The lamest objection in this whole debate was from the people who said "My budget is way too tight to afford another tax". That may be true, but it's utterly naive. You won't be hit with the toll, but Ontario will now get the same money out of the same people - in a far less transparent manner. Do we have to administer general anaesthetic before we collect taxes?

- Paul