Paleo
Active Member
Can you picture this once PRESTO comes to save the 500,000 TTC users from tokens? Who's going to save us from PRESTO?
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Can you picture this once PRESTO comes to save the 500,000 TTC users from tokens? Who's going to save us from PRESTO?
I think the data collection thing works both ways though. It helps with demand, but I can see some right-winger raising a stink about Big Brother tracking everywhere I go by transit.
I do definitely see the upside though. Tap ons at certain locations can pinpoint exactly where and when demand exists, and routes can eventually be modified accordingly.
I'm assuming they will require a re-tap for transfers right? Like right now cash or ticket customers flash their time-based transfer when they board the bus at the front, but tickets will eventually be phased out. Won't a re-tap be required by the driver to validate the fare? Will monthly pass Presto holders have to re-tap when transferring as well?
If so, that'll give OC Transpo even more data to work with, showing exactly where and when people transfer, and from what routes to what routes.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
My dealings with Presto customer service have been positive. The first time I needed a PIN reset which was done quickly over the phone. Recently I lost my card and ordered a new one. It came in under five business days. However, it wasn't activated so I had to call customer service. Two problems arose. One, they believed I only reported my card lost a day before, and two the new card wasn't showing up in their system as delivered. The first problem was resolved quickly, but I was told staff would have to look into the second problem. They would have to get back to me in one business day. So today I got a call that my card issue has been resolved and I can start using it tomorrow morning or possibly this evening.
The staff were polite and I believe handled the problems as best they could. My only complaint would be the system itself where everything is not updated imediately.
The staff were polite and I believe handled the problems as best they could. My only complaint would be the system itself where everything is not updated imediately.
nfitz
Superstar
Presto teething problems in Ottawa:
From CBC: City wants fix for Presto card glitches
From Ottawa Citizen: Delay threatens Presto card rollout - Transit chairwoman acknowledges 'technical and customer service issues'. The article starts out "Testing on OC Transpo's new Presto card system is going so badly..."
Interesting to see how this will play out in a city that relies heavily on transit, rather than the smaller markets they've used so far, where you can let workers strike for months, with little impact to the community.
Perhaps Toronto has been right to not jump on quickly. Hopefully these issues will be resolved before TTC starts rolling out.
From CBC: City wants fix for Presto card glitches
From Ottawa Citizen: Delay threatens Presto card rollout - Transit chairwoman acknowledges 'technical and customer service issues'. The article starts out "Testing on OC Transpo's new Presto card system is going so badly..."
Interesting to see how this will play out in a city that relies heavily on transit, rather than the smaller markets they've used so far, where you can let workers strike for months, with little impact to the community.
Perhaps Toronto has been right to not jump on quickly. Hopefully these issues will be resolved before TTC starts rolling out.
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rbt
Senior Member
It took London nearly a decade after rolling out the first version of their card to fix all of the issues for the process to be friendly for the customers (including tourists).
It was monumentally stupid to pay $250M to develop, from scratch, a new card instead of paying that same amount to buy a deravitive of another proven payment system and card.
Presto, fully implemented on all transit agencies will have cost over a billion dollars and have all the problems of a first generation system.
Would not be surprised if in 2020 Metrolinx tenders for an off-the-shelf model to replace Presto.
nfitz
Superstar
As far as I know, Accenture won an open bidding process. Surely a company that has done this before (and apparently Accenture has - though I have to wonder), would have had the edge in a competitive bid, being able to put in a lower cost bid, as it would have been a derivative of another system. Isn't Cubic behind Oyster? They are a US company ... wouldn't they have put in a bid on the original GTA smartcard? Are the bids anywhere?
Jonny5
Senior Member
Post #8 suggests that the company behind the Oyster Card bid for the project and lost.
However I also recall posts in this thread that have suggested Accenture greatly overstated their abilities and the project floundered so badly at one point that the managers were pulled off or fired.
This might be an example of the tyrrany of having to pick the lowest bidder. I would really like to see the detailed RFP response dolalr amounts.
Voltz
Senior Member
Interesting, I was on the 95 GO bus in Durham Region today and the driver made an announcement that UPASS holders from UOIT or Durham College can now have their UPASS programmed onto their Presto card so they are not charged for the part of their trip that is inside Durham Region, and they can tap on and off normally.
Previously riders with upasses bought 10 ride tickets for the part of the trip not covered by the upass, with those tickets being removed most riders had to use presto and go up to the front of the bus to tap their card at the first stop in Pickering, which I have seen being done recently.
So hopefully this will be able to be done for DRT pass holders soon, as well as full compatibly with the DRT one fare anywhere in Durham policy.
Previously riders with upasses bought 10 ride tickets for the part of the trip not covered by the upass, with those tickets being removed most riders had to use presto and go up to the front of the bus to tap their card at the first stop in Pickering, which I have seen being done recently.
So hopefully this will be able to be done for DRT pass holders soon, as well as full compatibly with the DRT one fare anywhere in Durham policy.
nfitz
Superstar
Ottawa has now delayed the July 1st Presto launch for at least a month:
City, smart card agency delay Presto rollout until glitches fixed
Looks like Metrolinx will be picking up the bill for the delay.
City, smart card agency delay Presto rollout until glitches fixed
Looks like Metrolinx will be picking up the bill for the delay.
Doesn't surprise me. Half of the buses I've been on in the past week didn't even have the readers installed.
TOareaFan
Superstar
http://www.thestar.com/news/transportation/article/1214444--ottawa-presto-launch-delayed-until-feb-1
Bit longer than a month now.
Jonny5
Senior Member
It looks like Accenture is in way over their heads.
nfitz
Superstar
Wow, a 7 month delay - even though they were down to 3 weeks to implementation recently.
That's a massive failure. I'd expect heads to be rolling somewhere. There was a detailed article in the Star this morning (page A12) detailing how they are using a different vendor for the hardware, as they were the lowest bidder. Yeah, I guess that paid off ...
Here's the link for the digital version of the Star article - http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1213993--presto-card-roll-out-in-ottawa-hits-bumpy-road ... wow, one guy reported a 95% failure rate in tapping on ...
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Dan416
Senior Member
I've used Presto on GO from time to time and haven't run into any problems (except when I forgot to tap off a GO bus).
I'm shocked that Ottawa had this disaster.
It really makes the whole enterprise seem so amateur.
I'm shocked that Ottawa had this disaster.
It really makes the whole enterprise seem so amateur.
Electrify
Senior Member
I think before Presto is ready for prime time on the TTC and OC Transpo, they need to fix the problems. That sounds obvious, but it is the kinds of problems which need addressing. To start, alternatives need to be looked at for tapping off. I don't mean to cater to the lowest common denominator, but besides those unfamiliar with the transit system getting screwed over, there are those with memory issues for whom it would be difficult to remember to tap off.
I don't know how they would do it, but transactions need to be instant and not need confirmation from a system tap. If someone adds credit to their account, whether it be online or from a terminal, that credit needs to be put on their account instantly and not take effect 24 hours later. When I'm in New York City, when I put money on my Metrocard at a terminal, I can take it from the terminal to the turnstile and enter the subway instantly. Likewise, I turned off the auto renew on my card for the summer since I don't expect to be taking transit as often, and when I eventually went on the bus my account auto renewed because I didn't tap my card within 7 days of making the change to my account.
All this talk about customer service, well as someone who deals with customers I can say with confidence, most customers are stupid. Despite being in Richmond Hill, the majority of my customers believe that it is ILLEGAL to charge for plastic bags now and/or we will be forced to get rid of all plastic bags by next year. Hell, many can't even put their debit or credit cards into the terminal properly! To expect the masses to remember to tap off, to understand that it takes 24 hours for their credit to be added to their accounts, and to realize they need to tap to confirm changes to their account is simply a recipe for disaster. Regardless of developing our own solution or using an established infrastructure, we should look to the end user experience in places like New York City and Montreal and replicate them here!
I don't know how they would do it, but transactions need to be instant and not need confirmation from a system tap. If someone adds credit to their account, whether it be online or from a terminal, that credit needs to be put on their account instantly and not take effect 24 hours later. When I'm in New York City, when I put money on my Metrocard at a terminal, I can take it from the terminal to the turnstile and enter the subway instantly. Likewise, I turned off the auto renew on my card for the summer since I don't expect to be taking transit as often, and when I eventually went on the bus my account auto renewed because I didn't tap my card within 7 days of making the change to my account.
All this talk about customer service, well as someone who deals with customers I can say with confidence, most customers are stupid. Despite being in Richmond Hill, the majority of my customers believe that it is ILLEGAL to charge for plastic bags now and/or we will be forced to get rid of all plastic bags by next year. Hell, many can't even put their debit or credit cards into the terminal properly! To expect the masses to remember to tap off, to understand that it takes 24 hours for their credit to be added to their accounts, and to realize they need to tap to confirm changes to their account is simply a recipe for disaster. Regardless of developing our own solution or using an established infrastructure, we should look to the end user experience in places like New York City and Montreal and replicate them here!