books
Active Member
Sorry, the formatting didn't come through properly. I'm tired.
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Sorry, the formatting didn't come through properly. I'm tired.
WillTo
Senior Member
This is a huge problem of the TTC. Presto implementation poorly communicated.
New signage on buses implies that entire system is POP when only streetcars are.
Even us transit geeks can't get it right.
books
Active Member
I agree, the rules have been very poorly communicated not just to the public but to TTC employees. Last week I had a long conversation with a streetcar operator on the 504 line (all the way from Broadview station to Queen St., I think he was just bored. LOL). At one point he said to me that the employees are learning it along with the customers. "We're learning it with you", I think were his words, or something to that effect. It's like I said above, it's a game in which the players interpret the rules differently. The penalty? A $235 fine!
Also, re my post above: I should have said that last week I was transferring at Spadina from the subway to a streetcar, not a bus. It's been a long day.
Also, re my post above: I should have said that last week I was transferring at Spadina from the subway to a streetcar, not a bus. It's been a long day.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
TTC buses and streetcars update more often then the fare gates do as they connect to the network all the time via cellular and wifi. My guess would be because the readers on the buses and streetcars don't have the memory capacity that the fare gates do so they have to dump all of the data more often.
books
Active Member
True, there may be a technical reason for it. However, I've been thinking that maybe this was done at the request of the TTC so that fare inspection officers have the info ASAP. For example, if the system immediately reported my transfer onto the streetcar then a fare inspection officer at Union would have access to that transfer info by the time the streetcar pulled into Union. Just a thought; maybe there's a technical reason but I'm not a technical guy.
Megaton327
Senior Member
That's not it. The fare inspectors don't pull your tap information off the internet, they actually physically tap your presto card onto their inspection reader. All of the data from your taps is stored physically directly on your card. If you tap on a streetcar, the instant you tap it's recorded onto your card--it takes a while to show up online, but it's on your card right away. If you tap on the subway station turnstiles at Spadina then go downstairs and board a 510, when a fare inspector checks your card it will show "Spadina Subway Station" as your last tap, vs. someone who taps the streetcar where it will say "Vehicle 4406" or whatnot. Either way, you've paid a valid fare, but of course the TTC can't figure their own stuff out and frankly their fare inspectors are even bigger jokes than the rest of their staff where Presto/fare policies are concerned.
There are so many issues with the Presto rollout, it's a shame that the TTC has decided to just make things worse by making up nonsense like this rather than focusing on the real issues.
Steve X
Senior Member
Given the fact that each transaction is only 50 bytes or less. It's just vehicle number(integer=4byte), route number (integer=4bytes), branch letter (char=1byte), time (long integer=8bytes), stop id (integer=4bytes), charge(floating point=8bytes), card total(floating point=8bytes) and payment or transfer(boolean=1bit). Maybe some more details. An $100 SD card can store all the transaction data for months! The risk of data lost is higher the longer it waits.
They aren't suppose to find your entire history. Otherwise they could scan whatever an attractive lady shows up for all her info. It's an invasion of privacy issue.
Megaton327
Senior Member
They don't need to find your entire history, they need to find your most recent tap. How is a fare inspector checking your most recent tap a privacy issue?
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I've had my presto card inspected by Go, UPX and TTC fare inspectors and all they see is a check that you paid your fare.
nfitz
Superstar
Ah, you have figured it out!
TTC has been clear that you don't need to tap onto vehicles in fare paid areas. It might well work better if you do - but the communication has been clear from those with authority to speak.
You pay your money and take your chances! In the long haul though, every time I've used consistently for a while (I normally have a Metropass, but this week for example my wife will have it all week), I get more free rides, than extra charges.
Steve X
Senior Member
I meant if they were to go through your records via the internet.
So weirdness using Presto for me ... I took the Queen bus (oh how I miss the streetcar) east last night for an appointment, and then I took it west after the appointment, which took me less than 2 hours. Because it was the 501 going both directions, I expected to be charged twice, but the return trip showed as a transfer so no charge. In the past, it has been charged as a new trip.
nfitz
Superstar
Odd. I wonder if it sees the 501P and the 501L as two separate routes. Or was one a 502 perhaps?
Both 501s, but the card activity on the website doesn't show the route number, just the location, so perhaps it's just a glitch with the various route diversions because of construction.
Fred.S
Active Member
I've tapped on the same route many times, and got the free transfer. The only time I got refused was when I just happened to try to tap on the same vehicle an hour later. I don't think the system knows the routes, you can tap on as many buses and streetcars within 2 hours (so long as it isn't the same vehicle). The system only lets you tap on the subway once though, and won't give you the transfer if you're tapping into a station that doesn't have any valid non-fare paid bus/streetcar connections. I learned that when I walked to St George, and tapped in, after tapping onto a streetcar 30 min earlier, and I got charged for each tap. I got greedy I guess.