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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

Debit cards too. The difference is privacy: https://www.apple.com/apple-pay/ card numbers are not stored on your device or shared with merchants.

As for Presto, I use auto load. I just want an app, preferably that allows me to add the card to Apple Wallet (different than Apple Pay) so I don't have to carry a physical card.
 
PinkLucy said:
Debit cards too. The difference is privacy: https://www.apple.com/apple-pay/ card numbers are not stored on your device or shared with merchants.

As for Presto, I use auto load. I just want an app, preferably that allows me to add the card to Apple Wallet (different than Apple Pay) so I don't have to carry a physical card.
Click to expand...

Actually, for Presto it would need to be added to Apple Pay, because Apple Wallet is only for barcode/QR code based cards. Presto is NFC, so it needs to be done through Apple Pay. Apple is more than happy to add Presto, just Metrolinx doesn't seem interested.

I posted this a while back in the thread, but there's a farecard called Suica in Japan that functions similarly to presto i.e. balance is stored directly on individual cards, here's how it works with Apple Pay--this is how Presto would work if Metrolinx ever gets with the times:

Setup - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207155
Usage - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207154
 
Megaton327 said:
Actually, for Presto it would need to be added to Apple Pay, because Apple Wallet is only for barcode/QR code based cards. Presto is NFC, so it needs to be done through Apple Pay. Apple is more than happy to add Presto, just Metrolinx doesn't seem interested.

I posted this a while back in the thread, but there's a farecard called Suica in Japan that functions similarly to presto i.e. balance is stored directly on individual cards, here's how it works with Apple Pay--this is how Presto would work if Metrolinx ever gets with the times:

Setup - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207155
Usage - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207154
Click to expand...

If that's the case everyone who wants presto on iPhone will have to wait until our mobile providers sell that model of iPhone 7. The only good thing is that my contract is up in dec and hopefully we will get that model by then
 
Megaton327 said:
Presto is NFC, so it needs to be done through Apple Pay. Apple is more than happy to add Presto, just Metrolinx doesn't seem interested.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see a source for "Apple is more than happy to add Presto".

Anyways, the way Presto cards work is dramatically different from how credit and debit cards work. Your phone would need to be able to store information like card balance, loyalty history (i.e. number of rides in the current day/week/month) and current trip info. You also wouldn't be able to keep the physical card because of this limitation. If your phone stopped working for whatever reason (dropped, dead battery, etc.), (A) you need to use a completely separate card with a completely separate balance and none of your transit passes or discounts, and (B) you'd be unable to prove you paid if a fare inspector showed up and you'd be unable to tap off for Go Transit, if it happened during your trip.

Even if Apple is ready to support Presto, having Presto cards on cell phones would be a customer experience nightmare.
 
amnesiajune said:
I'd love to see a source for "Apple is more than happy to add Presto".

Anyways, the way Presto cards work is dramatically different from how credit and debit cards work. Your phone would need to be able to store information like card balance, loyalty history (i.e. number of rides in the current day/week/month) and current trip info. You also wouldn't be able to keep the physical card because of this limitation. If your phone stopped working for whatever reason (dropped, dead battery, etc.), (A) you need to use a completely separate card with a completely separate balance and none of your transit passes or discounts, and (B) you'd be unable to prove you paid if a fare inspector showed up and you'd be unable to tap off for Go Transit, if it happened during your trip.

Even if Apple is ready to support Presto, having Presto cards on cell phones would be a customer experience nightmare.
Click to expand...
Apple doesn't lose anything from supporting Presto except for having to add that functionality. Metrolinx will have to pay Apple to use Apple Pay with Presto, but may gain some users. If you look up "Canada's Big 5 Banks vs Apple", you'll see that pay less fees for using Apple's service because they have "all the power".
 
Leo_Chan said:
If you look up "Canada's Big 5 Banks vs Apple", you'll see that pay less fees for using Apple's service because they have "all the power".
Click to expand...

Megaton327 said:
Apple Pay is open to other types of cards like transit cards.
Click to expand...

Neither of those comments address the CX problems. What is a fare inspector supposed to do when someone pulls out a bricked phone and says "sorry, my phone battery died"? What is a CSR supposed to do when someone calls them saying they couldn't tap off because their battery died?
 
amnesiajune said:
Neither of those comments address the CX problems. What is a fare inspector supposed to do when someone pulls out a bricked phone and says "sorry, my phone battery died"? What is a CSR supposed to do when someone calls them saying they couldn't tap off because their battery died?
Click to expand...
The same thing they do when someone buys a day pass using the ttc app.
 
LNahid2000 said:
The same thing they do when someone buys a day pass using the ttc app.
Click to expand...

Which is to say "sorry, you need to buy a new one". You can have that for the extremely odd case (day passes make up less than 2% of TTC ridership, and mobile day passes are a very small fraction of that). You can't do that for a system that many if not most of your passengers will be using, especially on a system that charges you up to $15 when you don't tap off.
 
many7695 said:
They can always say users of presto cards on iPhone should carry a backup card in case of issues like you mentioned
Click to expand...

But again, the card is the account. That's how every transit farecard system in the world is designed, not just Presto. If you have to have a second card with you, and that second card needs to have a separate balance and doesn't have any of your passes and discounts, there's no point in putting the first card on your cell phone.

A much more practicable solution, which is how the TTC will eventually work (their Presto card readers are designed with support for it) is contactless credit card payments - if someone really wants to use mobile payments, they just pay directly from their credit card (which can be on their phone)
 
amnesiajune said:
Neither of those comments address the CX problems. What is a fare inspector supposed to do when someone pulls out a bricked phone and says "sorry, my phone battery died"? What is a CSR supposed to do when someone calls them saying they couldn't tap off because their battery died?
Click to expand...

In the case of the fare inspector, fine the passenger for being unable to produce valid proof of payment. If you're using your phone as your farecard, you should make sure that it'll be operational for the duration of your trip. For the CSR, tell them that's unfortunate, they'll have to pay the missed tap off penalty or miss any transfer credits. You can also put phone chargers at subway exit points.

It should go without saying that mobile payment would have to be strictly optional. Presto would primarily remain in the form of a dedicated card--migrating it to your phone would be an option for those so inclined. At some point, adults need to be responsible for their actions and

amnesiajune said:
A much more practicable solution, which is how the TTC will eventually work (their Presto card readers are designed with support for it) is contactless credit card payments - if someone really wants to use mobile payments, they just pay directly from their credit card (which can be on their phone)
Click to expand...

Except that the cash/credit card fare on the TTC is $3.25 and the Presto fare is $3.00, and that multiple is likely to remain similar or increase (YRT/Viva is $3.50 Presto and $4.50 cash/credit/debit). The TTC has always lumped Credit in with cash (see LFLRV SRVMs currently, and the previous Dundas/College stations' pilot project for credit card payments on Presto readers at turnstiles) not presto.

Also, you can't do metropasses on credit cards, nor can you set a credit card up as a child credit card to open faregates for free--for that matter, obviously kids don't have credit or often debit cards.

And say goodbye to inter-agency transfers/co-fares/fare integration, unless GO, UPX, YRT/Viva, MiWay, Brampton Transit, and Durham Region Transit all start taking credit/debit and work out credit/debit fare integration too--unlikely to be possible due to the need to keep credit card data secure and private.

Your logic of "if someone really wants to use mobile payments, they just pay directly from their credit card" can just as well be changed to "if someone really wants to pay, they just pay using Presto" and stop taking cash, debit, and credit entirely.
 
amnesiajune said:
What is a fare inspector supposed to do when someone pulls out a bricked phone and says "sorry, my phone battery died"? What is a CSR supposed to do when someone calls them saying they couldn't tap off because their battery died?
Click to expand...
Probably the same as when I was going to get a ticket after realizing I'd forgotten to put my Metropass in my wallet, thinking I'd left it on my dining room table. Issue the ticket, but let them come in later with proof they actually had paid (or had a pass), and cancel the ticket. Fortunately for me, half way through writing the ticket, I looked again in my wallet, and found it tucked in a spot I never put my card.
 
nfitz said:
Probably the same as when I was going to get a ticket after realizing I'd forgotten to put my Metropass in my wallet, thinking I'd left it on my dining room table. Issue the ticket, but let them come in later with proof they actually had paid (or had a pass), and cancel the ticket. Fortunately for me, half way through writing the ticket, I looked again in my wallet, and found it tucked in a spot I never put my card.
Click to expand...

Good point, and that's even easier with Presto. 24h later, you can produce your transaction history showing a valid fare for the time the ticket was issued.
 
nfitz said:
Probably the same as when I was going to get a ticket after realizing I'd forgotten to put my Metropass in my wallet, thinking I'd left it on my dining room table. Issue the ticket, but let them come in later with proof they actually had paid (or had a pass), and cancel the ticket. Fortunately for me, half way through writing the ticket, I looked again in my wallet, and found it tucked in a spot I never put my card.
Click to expand...
Of course your card could have been being used by your partner. With Presto that would not work.
 
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