John Tory: Four Time Loser

[kEiThZ]

The United Nations has condemned us twice over for still having this stupid vestige of the nineteenth century.

I'd be careful about citing the UN as the paragon of justice and moral standards. The folks slagging us at the UN are the same ones passing that motion to make the slander of religions a crime.

 

[Dan416]

And they're also the ones who condemn Israel with alarming regularity but reserve no such words for the morally upright nations of Sudan, Libya, etc etc.

So let's not take the UN's say on human rights to have any currency please. The UN isn't some disembodied altruistic body. It's full of far more morally ambiguous countries than the nations they like to condemn. I'd much rather live in Israel than in any Islamic country.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

UN was right about this:

The United Nations has condemned us twice over for still having this stupid vestige of the nineteenth century.

UN was way wrong about this:

The folks slagging us at the UN are the same ones passing that motion to make the slander of religions a crime.

at the end of the day, whether funding catholic schools is right or wrong is not determined by the UN. it's determined by reason amongst other things. a school is not a place where one is sent to be indoctrinated into a religion, it is a place where one is sent so that they can learn information which will later benefit them when they're in the workforce, etc. the fact that it is called a "catholic school system" just goes to show what the most important objective is.

i understand that there were historical justifications for a catholic school system but in today's canada, it makes as much sense as having a fully grown adult drink milk from his mother's breast simply because he did it as a baby.

 

[adma]

Meanwhile, to get away from the endless school funding discussion mire, get back to John Tory's leadership specifically (funny how many people are calling it for Tim Hudak already), and then hop off that to the other end of the party-leadership spectrum...

First ballot NDP results

Horwath 4625.29 votes, 37.1%

Tabuns 3437.93 votes, 27.6%

Bisson 2954.23 votes, 23.7%

Prue 1438.44 votes, 11.5%

 

[adma]

Second ballot:

horwath 5259.06 votes - 43.6%

tabuns 3819.82 votes - 31.7 %

Bisson 2988.12 votes 24.8%


Third ballot: Horwath's in, and she's giving her victory speech...

 

[Brian69]

Although I don't exactly consider myself an NDP watcher I figured I'd at least have recognized one name out there. On the other hand, I'll probably be saying the same thing about the Ontario Tories soon.

 

[King of Kensington]

Yes, it's definitely time for one school system. Unfortunately, it's not on the agenda for any of the major parties.

John Tory actually got it half right. People agreed the present system was unfair. They just disliked his solution even more.

 

[MisterF]

2. Dalton now has Iron grip on Ontario for a third term easily. If voters were pissed off at him, why would a long time Tory seat turn Red during a by election when we know Conservative voters are more determined to vote...

I spent a lot of my childhood in that riding, although I went to high school in Peterborough. Haliburton-Kawartha Lakes-Brock is a very rural riding and there's a strong anti-Toronto streak. I'd say the results have more to do with resenting the big city parachute candidate than liking the Liberals. That said, I find it hilarious that Tory managed to lose one of the safest Conservative seats in the province.

 

[King of Kensington]

Nobody seems happier than the far right of the PC's. It will be interesting to see the poll-by-polls for that riding. Did Tory actually do best in the more rightwing parts, or not? My feeling is that while a lot of Tories stayed home, I'll bet a lot of rightwing Tories actually voted Liberal to stick it to the "liberal" Bay Street "carpetbagger."

The new MP is likely to only be there for 2.5 years. Having a more rightwing leader (which they almost certainly will - probably Tim Hudak or Christine Elliott) will help them in Haliburton but it will kill them in the GTA and other urban areas that they need to retake government.

 

[ShonTron]

Everyone seems to agree he's a decent, dedicated and hard working person. It's rahter unfortunate in some ways he kept losing at this.

That said, I think it will take one more election cycle for there to be an appetite for real right-wing leader and platform in Ontario. Harris really was a fluke, after Bob Rae's fluke winning as NDP premier - no one expected that, so Rae had few people ready with him. More people might have voted Liberal if it had a stronger leader (I recall Lyn McLeod as being portrayed as a flip-flopper) and after rejecting the arrogant Peterson so soundly.

McGuinty is a lot like Miller - there's a lot of people who flood the newspaper comment boards trashing him, but there's little real hatred for the guy, even though the health tax and the nanny state distractions (like appeasing rich fathers of stupid kids) do grind peoples' gears. Like Miller, McGuinty has a weak opposition that has some time to get reorganized.

 

[afransen]

Actually, a more conservative PC party will tug the Liberals a bit to the right, which is probably a good thing. They seem to have been straying a bit too much to the left for my taste. I am encouraged by the talk of harmonizing the PST (which is a real drag on the economy). Full harmonization is not necessary as some will screams about those few things that are PST exempt but not GST exempt. I'd be satisfied with making it a value-added tax like the GST. Now if only they could address the corporate tax rate in this province, we could be a fair bit better off.

 

[lordmandeep]

Mcgunity does face anger from the right however from his base in the GTA area he still is liked because well he may not be the best leader but really the opposition in this situation would have been much worse.


Also its that Mcguinty just stands there and be so calm and quiet while the Tories are trying to using the most craziest and idiotic metaphors and comparison against Mcguinty. Its like stop treating the public like were watching a country concert and just say your point. This really pissed me off about Tory.

Mcgunity imo if he runs would still win but with a reduced majority. The NDP will pick up support from hard blue collar places where the NDP will promise the world. Tories will pick up more rural seats however GTA is like a big castle for the Liberals.

They have I think 50 of their seats around here...

 

[ShonTron]

Actually, a more conservative PC party will tug the Liberals a bit to the right, which is probably a good thing.

I don't think they've been too far to the left, I think McGuinty and Co. have found the comfortable centrist groove that was last forged by the Robarts/Davis Tories. The nanny state nonsense is tiring though.

I do welcome a stronger opposition. Look at Ottawa or even City Hall to see why a strong, at least articulate, opposition is needed. Keeps the governing party or leader on their toes and accountable.

 

[adma]

I spent a lot of my childhood in that riding, although I went to high school in Peterborough. Haliburton-Kawartha Lakes-Brock is a very rural riding and there's a strong anti-Toronto streak. I'd say the results have more to do with resenting the big city parachute candidate than liking the Liberals. That said, I find it hilarious that Tory managed to lose one of the safest Conservative seats in the province.

Though there's one other element here that merits pondering: Rick Johnson, the Liberal victor, and how the resentment at John Tory might have led constituents to look *him* over that carefully and decide that, well, he wasn't so bad, and "one of us". If *any* Liberal can be electable here, it's somebody like him.

Indeed, if the Tories continue to tread water into the next election and Laurie Scott doesn't run again, Johnson could well be reelected. (And it isn't like he'd be the only reelectable provincial Liberal in an otherwise Toryish seat out there: think of Steve Peters, Leona Dombrowsky, etc.)

 

[King of Kensington]

McGuinty doesn't come across as an "urban elite" like a lot of federal Liberal leaders have, especially not compared to John Tory.