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High-Speed Rail Proposals

It is almost a shame that BC didnt have a high speed project in mind. With one more region in Canada pushing the idea it would really make a more politically acceptable project for the Federal government too fund, though having Alberta express interest is a great boost in itself.

I think the biggest factor facing Quebec-Ontario will be provincial leadership. If the two premiers where to stand up and support high speed rail and improved passenger rail service in the corridor it could be just enough support at just the right time. I have little faith McGuinty or Charest will do this, but October is not too far away and some pressure on McGuinty could see that change and with any luck Marois will find herself in office in a year or two and would provide much stronger support for high speed rail in Quebec than there is now (not that there is not support, it is just terribley misguided at the momment).
 
I notice that it is harder and harder to get access to the Globe's "locked" content - Google News used to be a nice back door. But anyone with a TPL or academic library card can get in.

Here's John Barber's take, which is, scrap VIA and go it with the US.

Build high-speed trains to corridors that count
John Barber. The Globe and Mail. Toronto, Ont.: May 23, 2007. pg. A.15

The Conference Board of Canada says the federal government should consider the feasibility of high-speed passenger trains linking Canadian cities, including those of the so-called Quebec City-Windsor Corridor, but the sensible citizen has concerns.

Will this latest effort prove to be another tragedy, the last in a long series of dashed hopes and disappointments with high-speed rail? Or will it, like the rest of Ottawa's transportation policy, end instead as ignoble farce? Either outcome is all too possible, anything else less than likely.

The sad history of this appealing idea is nothing other than the destruction of passenger rail in Canada, read backward. From the moment the corridor first emerged as a prime candidate for fast electric trains, Ottawa accelerated its abandonment of passenger rail with equal and opposite force. As Europe and even the U.S. moved ahead, Via Rail's innovations became steadily sketchier and less successful, to the point now that its premium cars are pulled by vintage diesel locomotives at half the speed they were intended to travel.

The end of the process is a federal government with such little capacity and basic know-how it would be better off out of the game entirely. For Torontonians especially, the best hope for fast rail begins with the end of the national project.

Blowing up Via Rail for starters need not be considered destructive. The federal government no longer runs freight trains or airlines. Its retreat from airport management was the best thing that ever happened to air travellers, especially the millions who pass through Toronto. The decision to offload ports was equally inspired, although less well implemented, compromised as it was by such absurdities as the creation of the Toronto Port Authority.

The same new beginning is needed in passenger rail.

Among its immediate benefits, the end of Via will end the current fixation on the corridor the Crown corporation once dreamed about creating, but never did. It's about time. Who wants to go to Windsor or Quebec City, anyway?

The corridor might have made sense a generation ago, just as the route structure of the Canadian National Railway made some kind of sense when it was a Crown corporation used by Ottawa to protect and promote an east-west national economy. Privatized in the free-trading 21st-century, it quickly integrated into a seamless continental system that shows no evidence of national borders. To remain viable in eastern Canada, passenger trains must follow along.

What Toronto needs are fast trains to New York and Chicago, not Quebec City and Windsor. Rather than once again helping to demonstrate the futility of national leadership by investing hope in a renewed national effort, Toronto should join other cities and regions to plan a modern system. A good beginning would be to join Buffalo and western New York State in a campaign to hook up with Amtrak's Acela Express, a network of high-speed electric trains serving the rich Northeast Corridor - the corridor that counts.

The U.S. at least has fast electric trains, although Bushism has made their future uncertain. The best locomotive conceivably available for a made-in-Canada system is Bombardier's turbine-powered Jet Train, a cut-rate alternative the company promoted after policy-makers nixed the superior technology the company hoped to import from Europe. The same history of shortsighted decision-making has ensured that all the old impediments to fast trains - the need to use old track and to share it with freight traffic - will remain in place to hobble any new efforts.

The promise of fast trains is too great to leave it so blighted.
 
A couple of comments:

- Montreal and Ottawa still makes a lot of sense as natural high-speed rail destinations. Windsor would be part of a Detroit-Chicago link.

- Maybe MTO should do what several states are doing, and slowly take over funding and even equipment from VIA, and make VIA an operator of convenience. This is the approach CalTrans is taking with Amtrak California. New York State, Michigan, Wisconsin and other states partly fund Amtrak trains that serve them.

- I've always thought a frequent train service to Buffalo (with Canadian/US Customs in a secure Buffalo station) would be a good idea - give Niagara regional rail and a hook up to the US.

- New York would be a bit hard for now as a high-speed rail destination from Toronto. Montreal makes more sense now, but the expansion of the Empire State Corridor and a hook up at Buffalo to Toronto makes sense to me.
 
I have to be honest, scrapping VIA and joining the US is the fucking dumbest idea I have heard in a long term.

First, there is the simple matter of international connections. Travelling from Canada to United States is not going to be like going between European countries. Not only do you have the traditional customs regulations that have always been in place, but, the United States continually puts more restrictions on cross-border travel. And in cases where it is a land crossing, cost might not be such a big deal, but if a connection requires a new bridge or tunnel or customs facility, who is going to pay for it? If the United States is barely willing to invest in domestic rail travel, I am not sure why anyone would think they are going to bother investing in international connections.

It would also mean adopting fully their regulations and policies, which, are even more antiquated than ours in most cases. So how focusing on United States connections and adopting their rail policy would be of any help is beyond me. (Not too say that even short connections into Buffalo or Detroit could not be very profitable, but, I would expect that the only way they would happen is if Canadian jurisdictions where the ones to foot most or all of the bill).

This is not to say that VIA needs to remain as it currently is. Actually some restructuring of operations and management would be necessary to create an efficient system. But that is another issue unto itself. Canada does not lack the ideas or the know how or the economics to make high speed rail happen. It just lacks the right people to really push the idea into the public discourse and make it happen. And with any luck, that wont be a problem that exists for too much longer.
 
Canada does not lack the ideas or the know how or the economics to make high speed rail happen. It just lacks the right people to really push the idea into the public discourse and make it happen. And with any luck, that wont be a problem that exists for too much longer.

We are archaic creatures in this country and if you believe that the changing of guard on parliament hill is going to bring about change, you are sadly mistaken. Please take a look at VIA and you will see what I mean.

p5
 
Yeah, Barber is pretty damned clueless about anything west of Dufferin and north of Eglinton. That's obviously an idiotic idea. The traffic between Toronto and the other cities of the Quebec-Windor corridor is multiples of any Toronto-U.S. city pair. And he always just has to get in that little "Everyone not from Toronto is a bumpkin" jab. Who wants to go to Quebec City, a UNESCO World Heritage Site? A hell of a lot of people.
 
We are archaic creatures in this country and if you believe that the changing of guard on parliament hill is going to bring about change, you are sadly mistaken. Please take a look at VIA and you will see what I mean.

I am not dumb enough to believe that VIA will shed enough beauracrats and become a progressive, forward thinking agency that will spearhead a campaign for high speed rail. Nor do I think that any one particular party or government will be the hero of the day and make it all happen (though obviously some parties are more likely to support the idea than others).

But there are some people within VIA (or GO and AMT for that matter) who are not creatures of habit and do have strong ideas and vision, that, at least when the chance comes, they will be able to add to the discussion. There are going to be some politicians, federal and provincial, perhaps even municipal too, that will be strong advocates for the idea and help push through the legislature and funding required. There are even people in the private sector who have fairly progressive thoughts on high speed rail. It is not that I see it all turning around tommorow and being brought about by a sole agent, but rather the groups of people from various sectors eventually coming together and forming a general consensous that they will push forward. Making high speed rail (or any proper passenger rail system for that matter) is not a simple matter and I certainly dont expect it to be accomplished with simple, sudden solutions.
 
I would like to see the VIA Rail Act put through that would give it more than year-to-year confirmation of its existance. If it were a Schedule I Crown Corp, it would have more stablity and the ability to raise its own funds.

I would also like to see the provinces be able to arrange their own deals with VIA like is done with Amtrak to provide "above and beyond" what VIA already does to serve provincial level goals. Ontario might be more pushy to get say Kitchener and Niagara service beefed up with provincial subsidies. Same with Quebec and the Maritimes even.

Barber was out to lunch, but he did make a few interesting points - we should try to develop the international links (Toronto-Windsor/Detroit-Chicago is a great example). But throwing VIA away is a dumb idea. And Toronto-New York just won't be able to compete with air well, thanks to the geography.
 
Giving VIA Rail more stability would be a positive step, but on its own and under current circumstances, really would not do much to actually improve service.

The primary problem is that passenger rail service (be it intercity or regional or commuter services) needs its own network to operate on. Once it can stop being subordinate to the freight operators a lot of the current problems may well work themselves out naturally. But even that is just one part of a large number of changes that have to made. You also need legislature that would help create a dedicated passenger rail network by removing freight companies ownership from some portions of the lines they currently control, along with a change in regulations that would allow a more flexible mix of passenger rail stock (such as is the case on European networks). You also need ensure that control of the network and scheduling and traffic control is in the hands of a public agency so that no one has one a monopoly and that all agencies have an equal chance to use the network. Once those primary changes take place, and there is adequate funding to start building the new infrastructure, then even with an unchanged VIA Rail you suddenly start operating in a very different environment and what might be problematic now could no longer be an issue (or the opposite could, and probably would be, true with new problems arising).

The same is true of GO. Once a dedicated network starts to come online and they can actually schedule trains according to need and in a more efficient manner, they will probably find themselves running a very different organization than they currently do. With a proper network I am sure that across the GTA you will see GO and VIA develop new and complementary services. There could also be provincial passenger rail authorities created in Quebec and Ontario that would handle local traffic between smaller centers and cities off the mainlines. Or GO becoming a fully provincial agency and the GTAA taking over commuter services. Though until a network actually starts to take shape, it is really anyones guess as too what would actually happen.

The only international link I have seen seriously explored is a Montreal-Boston route which had a Phase 1 feasability study done. For the most part it said it could be a profitable route and recommended a formal study be done on the proposal. But nothing happened after the intial report so it is a now a non-issue so far as I know. The problem with international links is that while there could be some benefit for VIA in providing those kinds of connections, it requires an equal amount of cooperation from the other side, and so far as I can tell, there is almost no interest from US side in developing those connections.
 
I agree with those stating Barber has lost it. The Quebec-Windsor corridor has far more potential trips and being on the same side of the border and with cities not spread widely apart Windsor, Chatham, London, K-W, Pearson Airport, Toronto, Peterborough, Kingston, Ottawa, Dorval Airport, Montreal, Trois-Rivieres, and Quebec is a corridor that makes a lot of sense. Couple a high-speed rail corridor with the top North American Cities for the Future report and we have a winning combination. Rail is most competitive with air travel when the distances are short... the distance to Chicago or New York is pushing it. Windsor to Quebec would probably not be competitive with a non-stop air link between the two cities but Windsor to Toronto, Toronto to Montreal, and Montreal to Quebec would all be competitive with air travel, as would a Windsor to Toronto same train service be competitive with a two segment airline trip from Windsor to Quebec with a connection through Toronto.

Serving the cross border market with the current border situation with the US is something I can't see being competitive with other modes of travel. The Toronto to New York train takes two hours to clear the border. It would make more sense to have the train stop at a station on one side of the border and have everybody get off the train and take a moving walkway to a station the other side with the speed customs takes on the rail crossing.
 
The only way international travel could be efficient enough to be attractive would be to have pre-clearance for all passengers boarding the train so that there would be no need for a customs check once the train hits the border (just as Eurostar does). The primary problem with that is that building the required customs and security facilities that would be required, and too meet US standards plus the cost of staffing them could be very expensive (and perhaps even a bit depressing if you had to wait for your train on a self contained, totally isolated, almost prison like platform). And again it would be dependant on the US agreeing to invest on their half of the border, which, is really questionable.

That being said there are some shorter connections that come to mind as being potentially viable links to some degree. Two primary candidates I can think of would be a Toronto-Niagara Falls,ON-Niagara Falls,NY-Buffalo route. The other is Montreal-Plattsburgh,NY-Burlington,VT. Now whether they could support high speed rail service I would imagine is not at all likely since high speed rail requires a substantially high volume to be successful. But, there could be enough trip generation from these points to warrant smaller DMU's running on an upgraded passenger rail network that would allow speeds of 160 km/h and operating perhaps a half dozen departures in peak travel times. From a technical standpoint it is a fairly reasonable infrastructure project that would not require excessive capital investment, and, with pre-clearance, could provide fairly efficient cross border travel. Though whether these routes would even be able to support a half dozen trips daily would be a reasonable question and given the cost that customs and security facilities would add, it may make the project the unfeasable.

So while serving the US would be nice, and could one day happen, I really do not see it as being an option that is even worth exploring at the moment, let alone investing any money into it.
 
There is precedent in Canada as well. Pacific Central Station in Vancouver has US pre-screening, which minimalizes the delay at the border. There will be a second daily train to Seattle and Portland from Vancouver soon. This is what I imagine a Buffalo or Detroit station to be like - and need not be depressing, it would be like an airport, though there would need to be a secure, fenced or glassed in track and platform.

Outside the secure area would be the connections to Amtrak trains and local transportation.

Delays for most passengers would be minimal as if a couple of passengers are singled out or don't have documents, they don't delay everyone else than if it were at a typical rail border crossing.
 
^That is another good example. Not just for the effectiveness of pre-clearance but also because it demonstrates the logical connections that the Quebec-Windsor corridor have within a reasonable distance.

Vancouver and Portland are two modestly large, affluent, cities with healthy economies which are also close enough that a rail connection between the two makes technical sense as well as economic sense. But as Enviro said. the cities that would make the most sense and be most desireable to connect to the Quebec-Windsor corridor with high speed rail, New York, Boston, Washington and Chicago, are too far away to be efficiently served with high speed rail. The cities that are within a reasonable distance, Detroit, Buffalo, Burlington, even some places like Toledo or Rochester, don't really have that much importance to the corridor or are too small to generate the volume of trips needed to justify investing in new rail infrastructure and customs and security.

I think a case could be made for exploring some connections or at least moderately improving connections, but, for the Quebec-Windsor corridor improving international connections are a low priority at the moment.
 

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