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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

nfitz said:
??? LRC operated at same speed that Turbo did. No change in run times when they switched from Turbo to LRC equipment. (and much improvement in the air quality in the coaches).
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Technically true (then run times later got progressively worse as freight increased).

We're just making fun of of the "It'll always be in 20 to 30 years" aspect, and I think there were more fancy/splashy brochures of the TurboTrain as an official high speed train than the LRC. More splashy hype, that is. Could be wrong.
 
mdrejhon said:
Technically true (then run times later got progressively worse as freight increased).
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No, the best run (Montreal-Torono) time was 4 hours 30 minutes when VIA was running Turbo in the early 1980s and introducing LRC. It actually improved to 3 hours 59 minutes a couple of times long after Turbo was retired. The freight issue is relatively recent.

But recall that though that late afternoon express was under 5 hours - nothing else was. Looking at the current schedule, the best is 4:42 - but it stops 4 times - the 3:59 train only stopped once. A lot more runs seem to have more stops - but there are now several trains less than 5 hours. I think the average travel time may have actually dropped since the 1980s.

mdrejhon said:
We're just making fun of of the "It'll always be in 20 to 30 years" aspect,
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As far as I recall, VIA was talking about less than 10 years in the early 1980s, before the Conservatives got elected, and brought that to an end.

mdrejhon said:
and I think there were more fancy/splashy brochures of the TurboTrain as an official high speed train than the LRC. More splashy hype, that is. Could be wrong.
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I don't recall it being sold as high speed - more as futuristic and faster. And it was, though the current diesels can run the same speed as the Turbo was allowed to run.
 
Turbo was <4h on some (most) services.

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I love LRC, too, don't get me wrong (I have Jason Shron's HO Scale Rapido model and 3 coaches), but it was (currently is) severely neutered from what it once was. We're heading backward, not forward with speed.
 
Duck said:
Turbo was <4h on some (most) services.
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Never when I took it as far as I can recall. I don't think VIA ever ran it under 4 hours in the 1980s. Maybe CN tried to run it that way - but for how long, and how successfully. The media was pretty harsh on them for good reason.

And with the continuous articulated train, they were an air quality nightmare. I was glad to see the back of them. And if I recall, the seating was always kind of odd lots of groups of 4; leg room strangeness.
 
All very interesting information about TurboTrain's history, including its timetables pre/post CN. Thanks for posting the information!
 
Ontario government wants high-speed rail proposal by October, MP says

The Ontario government wants to see a proposal completed for a Toronto-to-Windsor high-speed rail project by October, according to a London-area MP.

The governing Liberals have been consulting with various stakeholders along the Toronto-to-Windsor corridor this month, as they map out what the proposed rail project could look like.

Karen Vecchio, the newly elected MP for Elgin-Middlesex-London, was at a stakeholders meeting held in London on Tuesday afternoon.

She came away from the meeting convinced that the provincial government is serious about making high-speed rail a reality. And it appears they plan to close in on a proposal in the months ahead.

"From what I understand, they want to have this studied and they want to have a proposal given to the government … by October of 2016," she told CBC Radio's Afternoon Drive in an interview on Tuesday.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/winds...ed-rail-proposal-by-october-mp-says-1.3440700
 
Shouldn't be too hard to come up with a proposal by October. There are about 30 years' worth already gathering dust, all available for reuse.

- Paul
 
My prediction: previous studies haven't been bullish on the Windsor stretch, so I don't think it will get full HSR in the upcoming proposal. That will stop in London. From there to Windsor the proposal will involve consolidating freight onto one existing line, with passenger trains using the other. Basically what VIAFast proposed. The line will be electrified and HSR trains will run from London to Windsor at the same 160 km/h the as existing trains, but at higher frequencies and no freight trains in the way. The line can be gradually upgraded over time if demand warrants it. That keeps costs low while being able to say that they're bringing high speed rail to Windsor.

andrewpmk said:
Pipe dream.
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Not really. It's quite achievable by the Ontario government, at least the Toronto to London portion. The only new corridors would be about 60 km between Kitchener and London and another 35 km or so for a Guelph bypass Much of the rest is being upgraded for RER anyway. It's a big job to be sure, but small potatoes compared to all the new freeways that have been built over the decades. The 407 east alone is comparable in scope and cost. We spend billions on intercity transportation all the time; it's really just a question of how much of that goes to roads and how much goes to rail.
 
The only new corridors would be about 60 km between Kitchener and London and another 35 km or so for a Guelph bypass Much of the rest is being upgraded for RER anyway. It's a big job to be sure, but small potatoes compared to all the new freeways that have been built over the decades. The 407 east alone is comparable in scope and cost. We spend billions on intercity transportation all the time; it's really just a question of how much of that goes to roads and how much goes to rail.
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The only section of the Kitchener line that's being upgraded to RER is the section between Bramalea and Union. While Metrolinx still owns most of the corridor out to Kitchener, they are missing a critical piece along CN's mainline through Brampton which would need to be significantly widened and/or owned by Metrolinx to support bi-directional electrified service. The only real way to kick CN off their mainline I can see is to build them a new one in the 407 corridor. Mississauga called this connection The Missing Link (see the gold line).

9c6mZa4.png


I also wouldn't take former transport minister Glen Murray's hasty pre-election map as gospel. Much of the existing corridor between Kitchener and Toronto if electrified and grade separated would easily be able to support 200km/h service. I'm not so sure it's worth it to bypass Guelph for to attain 300km/h even if trains need to slow to a modest 160 km/h when passing through Guelph's downtown.
 
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dunkalunk said:
The only section of the Kitchener line that's being upgraded to RER is the section between Bramalea and Union. While Metrolinx still owns most of the corridor out to Kitchener, they are missing a critical piece along CN's mainline through Brampton which would need to be significantly widened and/or owned by Metrolinx to support bi-directional electrified service. The only real way to kick CN off their mainline I can see is to build them a new one in the 407 corridor. Mississauga called this connection The Missing Link (see the gold line).

9c6mZa4.png


I also wouldn't take former transport minister Glen Murray's hasty pre-election map as gospel. Much of the existing corridor between Kitchener and Toronto if electrified and grade separated would easily be able to support 200km/h service. I'm not so sure it's worth it to bypass Guelph for to attain 300km/h even if trains need to slow to a modest 160 km/h when passing through Guelph's downtown.
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Whoa wait a minute.. could that new freight line take CP trains off Milton line as well, thus freeing up that line for GO improvements?

If so that's a very valuable project that probably should be prioritized...
 
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