GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[dowlingm]

It should be borne in mind that like AMT/NJT's purchase of the ALP45s and Multilevels, there are other agencies kicking the wheels on EMUs. There would be a lot of upside to a joint procurement if a sufficiently similar spec could be agreed.

 

[nfitz]

It should be borne in mind that like AMT/NJT's purchase of the ALP45s and Multilevels, there are other agencies kicking the wheels on EMUs. There would be a lot of upside to a joint procurement if a sufficiently similar spec could be agreed.

I'd think a full scale GO committment to EMUs would be large enough that it would already achieve most economy of scale savings, unlike relatively small-scale purchases like the 18 DMU cars for the Union Pearson service.

 

[rbt]

I'd think a full scale GO committment to EMUs would be large enough that it would already achieve most economy of scale savings, unlike relatively small-scale purchases like the 18 DMU cars for the Union Pearson service.

Agreed. If they do it as a single order it'll probably sit somewhere between the subway and LRT order (~$800M) and take 5 to 8 years to deliver.

 

[pstogios]

Every GO line terminates at Union Station.

Are there any rail lines that run "crosstown" (I.e. do not terminate at Union) and connect the municipalities that GO currently serves, that could be adopted into the GO system?

In this era of upcoming RER, incredible traffic on the 401 that won't be tamed in any way other than heavy rail, and work-life committing *across* town rather than *down*town, this seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[liamdevlin02]

Every GO line terminates at Union Station.

Are there any rail lines that run "crosstown" (I.e. do not terminate at Union) and connect the municipalities that GO currently serves, that could be adopted into the GO system?

In this era of upcoming RER, incredible traffic on the 401 that won't be tamed in any way other than heavy rail, and work-life committing *across* town rather than *down*town, this seems like a no-brainer to me.

CP Belleville, CP North Toronto, CN York and CN Halton immediately come to mind as "cross town" lines, but these are unlikely candidates for extensive passenger rail service or RER.
Service on York and Halton would make my commuting immeasurably easier, so I'd be a fan of it, if it were to ever, ever happen.

 

[RogerB]

401 congestion

Every GO line terminates at Union Station.

Are there any rail lines that run "crosstown" (I.e. do not terminate at Union) and connect the municipalities that GO currently serves, that could be adopted into the GO system?

In this era of upcoming RER, incredible traffic on the 401 that won't be tamed in any way other than heavy rail.

Congestion is merely waiting in line for an expensive and limited service, subsidized by all, and given away for free. Considering the relative absence of financial cues, time & auto access are the major limiting factors to kilometres driven. Transit provides and important alternative to the car, but as long as government subsidizes driving and continues to widen the 401 and roads connecting to it, congestion should continue to get worse.

Until GO figures out how to provide transit that doesn't depend on someone driving to the station, crosstown services like the the 407 buses just don't have heavy rail demand. One needs either a walkable core like Union Station, quality local transit, or preferably a bit of both en route.
Overflow conditions on highways do not necessarily indicate fertile corridors for transit. The recent (last 30 years) trend of steering transit cash towards (automobile) congestion relief, has led to costly investments that attract low numbers of transit users, and therefore little 'congestion relief'.

 

[ehlow]

Every GO line terminates at Union Station.

Are there any rail lines that run "crosstown" (I.e. do not terminate at Union) and connect the municipalities that GO currently serves, that could be adopted into the GO system?

In this era of upcoming RER, incredible traffic on the 401 that won't be tamed in any way other than heavy rail, and work-life committing *across* town rather than *down*town, this seems like a no-brainer to me.

There's this line, which goes near Summerhill and Dupont stations http://transit.toronto.on.ca/regional/2106.shtml

 

[nfitz]

There's this line, which goes near Summerhill and Dupont stations http://transit.toronto.on.ca/regional/2106.shtml

That would be the CP North Toronto subdivision liamdevlin02 mentioned above. Well, the centre is ... the piece on the east is the CP Belleville subdivision, and the piece on the west is the CP Galt subdivison, that already carries the GO Milton service west of the Junction.

 

[dowlingm]

Good luck selling the noise of commuter service to Rosedalians, and turfing out that LCBO too! (And that's before the CPR say no anyway)

 

[MrsNesbitt]

CP Belleville, CP North Toronto, CN York and CN Halton immediately come to mind as "cross town" lines, but these are unlikely candidates for extensive passenger rail service or RER.
Service on York and Halton would make my commuting immeasurably easier, so I'd be a fan of it, if it were to ever, ever happen.

I, along with a boatload of other commuters who work in York Region and Mississauga, would find service on the York Subdivision at least to be an immeasurably useful and likely very well-ridden service. A recurring theme in the problem of where transit is located in the GTA is that our east-west crosstown lines are vastly concentrated towards the southern end of the region. GO ALRT had the foresight to plan for further-north crosstown lines back in the 1980s...oh ALRT, where art thou?

In any event though it'd be very tough to get passenger service on York or Halton Subs, considering how heavily-used for freight they are, plus space restraints and infrastructure requirements, and of course that (York at least) was built expressly with the purpose of re-routing freight off of the Kingston Sub to an entirely-new freight line.

 

[gweed123]

Good luck selling the noise of commuter service to Rosedalians, and turfing out that LCBO too! (And that's before the CPR say no anyway)

Yeah, the only way the North Toronto subdivision is getting any type of GO service is if the CP freight traffic is diverted onto another line. The only real candidate for that is the CN York Sub, which would require a) an extension westward to meet up with CP's line in Milton, b) a reconfiguration of the tracks around Oshawa to allow CP trains to switch onto CN tracks there, and c) a co-share agreement between CN and CP to use CN tracks for CP freight.

Logistically speaking, it probably won't happen, which means GO service on the North Toronto Sub probably won't happen, unless CP goes belly up or GO spends billions for new tracks along the corridor (which, given the space confinements, would be very tough).

 

[junctionist]

Good luck selling the noise of commuter service to Rosedalians, and turfing out that LCBO too! (And that's before the CPR say no anyway)

Don't worry about NIMBYs and a liquor store, but CP's midtown line is a busy freight line with a narrow right of way. It might be possible to widen the right of way or shift CP traffic north, though.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Don't worry about NIMBYs and a liquor store, but CP's midtown line is a busy freight line with a narrow right of way. It might be possible to widen the right of way or shift CP traffic north, though.

Agreed. Frankly if the residents of the route put up with living near frequent enormous CP freights, a few GO trains shouldn't be too unpalatable. But I don't think GO service through Summerhill is the most useful, however, especially given the formidable challenges the route faces.

 

[gweed123]

Agreed. Frankly if the residents of the route put up with living near frequent enormous CP freights, a few GO trains shouldn't be too unpalatable. But I don't think GO service through Summerhill is the most useful, however, especially given the formidable challenges the route faces.

It also wouldn't exactly help with the whole "Yonge line is already a sardine can south of Eglinton" thing…

And I really don't think there's much room in the corridor, especially the central section from say Mt. Pleasant to the Junction, to add an extra track, let alone 2. IMO, the only way that we're going to see GO service on that line is if the freight traffic is moved off of it. I know I've mentioned it before, but building an extension of the York sub from Bramalea to near Milton along the 407 would do wonders. It would complete the freight bypass line for the GTA, and eliminate freight crunches on the Milton line, the Kitchener line through Brampton, and free up the Midtown line. Heck, even if GO had to pay to double or triple track the entirety of the remainder of the York Sub in order to facilitate both CN and CP freight movements along the line, it would still be cheaper than adding all of the extra tracks required to the lines mentioned above in order to facilitate AD2W or GO REX along dedicated tracks.

 

[drum118]

Yeah, the only way the North Toronto subdivision is getting any type of GO service is if the CP freight traffic is diverted onto another line. The only real candidate for that is the CN York Sub, which would require a) an extension westward to meet up with CP's line in Milton, b) a reconfiguration of the tracks around Oshawa to allow CP trains to switch onto CN tracks there, and c) a co-share agreement between CN and CP to use CN tracks for CP freight.

Logistically speaking, it probably won't happen, which means GO service on the North Toronto Sub probably won't happen, unless CP goes belly up or GO spends billions for new tracks along the corridor (which, given the space confinements, would be very tough).

There is room in the corridor for 4 tracks since there are many section with 3 now and room to add another track. Grade crossing will be an issue since there is no room to do one with out tearing buildings down or closing off streets.

Lots of track space at Summerhill station with platform space.

Don't see CP & CN running joint service in the same corridor especially the Halton Sub that can only support 3 tracks period. More important, you created a nightmare for tank train derailment 3 fold and cutting the network now if such a derailment took place. But most of all, you put are putting people lives at a higher risking of being kill or injure if such derailment took place.

The only way dangerous goods cannot be ship by rail is not shipping them and giving up the good life style we enjoy today.

You will almost triple the number of trains on the Halton Sub and this along raise the back of the residents along that corridor base on future growth.

It make No matter if you relocate both lines to another area, it will have an impact on people living along the line.

GO will run one day on the CP line, but way down the road at this time as there are far more important work to be done first.