GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[drum118]

Euro-spec trains are lighter (hence faster to accelerate) and cheaper, I believe. I don't think this Stadler train looks much better, but I'm pretty sure we would get better service using it.

The Stadler looks like the rest of the manufactures I saw in 12. All their equipment is low floor including the double deck cars that I saw.

The Stadler tram is better than what we are getting.

Most equipment comes in 3 to 9 car units and are Mu to form a train up to 18 cars long. Some cases you have 3 trains making up 1 train.

Takes minutes to add or reduce the length of the train compare how our current fleet takes and a small faction of the cost to do so. This applies to any type of train regardless highfloor/lowfloor and age of the equipment.

Germany

 

[ehlow]

^imagine those running GO

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Not a big fan of the Stadler appearance wise, imo the MP40 loco looks much sleeker.
Heck its not much better then what we will be getting for cab cars;

The operating area for which will take up most of the intermediate section and be slightly higher. There will be a couple steps leading up into it across from the stairs. There should also be a proper steel door for security, its ridiculously easy to gain access as is... Best of all, it shouldn't be possible to hear all the disturbing conversations going on inside!


Anyhow, substance is far more important than appearance. So obviously it would be awesome to have EMU's regardless of how they look, especially ones with multifunction couplers.

 

[TOareaFan]

^I see what you did there....[/swearingdiscussion]

 

[robmausser]

I am really hopeful we will get "subway-like" European EMU's running in the downtown core with GO. Use the GO Deisels we currently have for "express stop" services out to the outer network.

What are the chances of that?

If Metrolinx owns the lines in the downtown core, and there is no freight on them (like from Burlington to Oshawa on the LS network) can we not get an exception to the FRA rules?

Especially if say, the Europen EMU's run on tracks 1 and 4, and VIA/GO-Bilevels run on tracks 2 and 3?

 

[rbt]

I am really hopeful we will get "subway-like" European EMU's running in the downtown core with GO. Use the GO Deisels we currently have for "express stop" services out to the outer network.

What are the chances of that?

Well, they won't be European spec EMU's but something similar to what you describe is seems very likely unless:

1) The next recession (could be quite soon, it's been 7 years) is a big one and provincial revenues fall. This impacts the amount of debt we can take on.
2) Metrolinx is unable to get the majority of it tendered before the next provincial election. Conservatives likely won't win a majority (new party leaders never get majority on their first try in Ontario; IIRC Wynne was the first in decades) but they could take a minority if #1 proves difficult for the Liberals to handle.

 

[smallspy]

If Metrolinx owns the lines in the downtown core, and there is no freight on them (like from Burlington to Oshawa on the LS network) can we not get an exception to the FRA rules?

Metrolinx does not need an exemption from the FRA rules, they need to be able to make a case to Transport Canada to allow for an exemption.

And of course, that ignores an even more important question: where would the VIA trains run then?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[robmausser]

Metrolinx does not need an exemption from the FRA rules, they need to be able to make a case to Transport Canada to allow for an exemption.

And of course, that ignores an even more important question: where would the VIA trains run then?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

As I stated there are at least 4 tracks between Burlington-Pickering. Pickering to Oshawa GO uses its own tracks so that is not an issue.

VIA/GO Bi-Levels could use the middle tracks, 2 and 3, and the non-FRA compliant EMU's could use 1 and 4. Therefore there would never be an EMU and VIA/GO Bilevel using the same track.

Getting into Union there could be a slow order as there already is as well as keeping certian platforms for EMU's and certian ones for GO Bilevel/VIA so that the trains never cross paths.

However, is this even an issue? Are passenger rail trains considered a cause for FRA safety standards?

I thought it was only to protect passenger trains from larger freight trains.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Germany

Drum: I like the design of this German DB EMU the best - I really like this red color scheme that these cars have...

Everyone: With the mention of European EMU cars why not mention some North American EMU cars that can be used on GO's future
electrification: I will suggest the new gallery type EMUs used by both Metra Electric and NICTD's South Shore Line for starters
and Bombardier's MR70 Montreal EMUs used by AMT on the Deux-Montagnes Line...A EMU variation of the Bombardier multi-level
car used by NJ Transit,Montreal's AMT and Maryland's MARC could be a third option...Kawasaki's multi level cars used by Boston's
MBTA and a group in MARC service adds a fourth option if a EMU variation can be made available...

GO Transit could also place an order for electric locomotives - they should be watching the new Amtrak ACS64 from Siemens closely...

A balance of EMUs and locomotive hauled trains may work well for GO Transit Rail...

Buying North American designed EMU cars could have many advantages over a European design...LI MIKE

 

[drum118]

If you are on the 2nd level of DB EMU and a tall person, you better not sit by the window.

I found the window seat a low ceiling head clearance an issues as the roof is a sloop/roll design compare to our box style. Even the new EMU design is an improvement over the old ones, but the ceiling is an issue.

The Swiss have a better one than DB.

Netherlands

Swiss

Czech

 

[smallspy]

As I stated there are at least 4 tracks between Burlington-Pickering. Pickering to Oshawa GO uses its own tracks so that is not an issue.

VIA/GO Bi-Levels could use the middle tracks, 2 and 3, and the non-FRA compliant EMU's could use 1 and 4. Therefore there would never be an EMU and VIA/GO Bilevel using the same track.

Getting into Union there could be a slow order as there already is as well as keeping certian platforms for EMU's and certian ones for GO Bilevel/VIA so that the trains never cross paths.

However, is this even an issue? Are passenger rail trains considered a cause for FRA safety standards?

I thought it was only to protect passenger trains from larger freight trains.

Are you trying to state a fact, or what you are expecting will happen in the future? Your wording is quite vague, and if you're trying to state a fact you are wrong in quite a few places.

And yes, passenger trains in the US are subject to all of the same FRA standards (as well as a bunch of APTA standards that freight trains are not subject to). And again, that has no bearing on what happens in Canada in any case.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[robmausser]

Are you trying to state a fact, or what you are expecting will happen in the future? Your wording is quite vague, and if you're trying to state a fact you are wrong in quite a few places.

And yes, passenger trains in the US are subject to all of the same FRA standards (as well as a bunch of APTA standards that freight trains are not subject to). And again, that has no bearing on what happens in Canada in any case.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I am asking a question, not stating a fact. This thing: ? is called a question mark.

Not everyone is trying to pretend like they know everything on the internet.

However, you have misunderstood my question. So I will ask it again in a more detailed way.

I am aware that all passenger trains are subject to FRA standards.

But, my question: are they subect to FRA standards if the lines aren't owned by freight companies and no freight is ever allowed on the lines?

I was under the impression FRA was to protect passenger trains from hitting freight trains that share the lines.

If the tracks between Burlington -> Oshawa are only used by VIA trains and other GO trains and owned by Metrolinx, and NEVER freight trains, then do they have to follow FRA standards for safety?

Furthermore, if 2 of the 4 tracks between burlington-Oshawa are only ever used by EMU's and never by VIA/other trains, can they be extempt from FRA standards?

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Although GO owns the lines where the EMU service will operate on, infrequent freight movements still operate on those sections. In any case, individual tracks on the same subdivision would never be exempt. Not as long as there are crossovers between the tracks. And there is no chance that they will remove the crossovers. You can plan to run the service in such a way 2 for EMU, 2 for VIA/GO express, but there's always the potential individual tracks will have problems and trains will need to be routed around onto other tracks. It would make no sense to remove the crossovers and thus eliminate any flexibility they have to deal with such issues.

 

[smallspy]

I am asking a question, not stating a fact. This thing: ? is called a question mark.

You had one question mark in your original post, so I would hope that it was intended as a question.

However, one of your other comments - "As I stated there are at least 4 tracks between Burlington-Pickering. Pickering to Oshawa GO uses its own tracks so that is not an issue." is incorrect as a statement of fact. There are at least three tracks from Aldershot to Guildwood, but only two from Guildwood to Pickering Junction. Before more tracks are added, there needs to be an EA and then the money's going to need to be allocated. That needs to happen before any questions of separation of tracks comes into play.

Not everyone is trying to pretend like they know everything on the internet.

Who's pretending?

However, you have misunderstood my question. So I will ask it again in a more detailed way.

I am aware that all passenger trains are subject to FRA standards.

But, my question: are they subect to FRA standards if the lines aren't owned by freight companies and no freight is ever allowed on the lines?

So long as FRA equipment is required to run on those tracks, they must be kept to FRA standards, and thus all equipment must meet those standards and regulations (except in limited situations where a waiver has been given to run non-compliant equipment within the permissions and rules of that waiver).

To make it clear - if the track that they are running on is under FRA oversight then the trains are most certainly subject to the applicable FRA standards and regulations. If a line was built to keep one type of train totally separated from everything else, than it would not need to be subject to those FRA rules - which is how most light rail and subway lines work.

I was under the impression FRA was to protect passenger trains from hitting freight trains that share the lines.

The FRA was created to monitor, manage and regulate the US railroad network. Keeping trains from hitting others, regardless of their load, is just part of their job.

If the tracks between Burlington -> Oshawa are only used by VIA trains and other GO trains and owned by Metrolinx, and NEVER freight trains, then do they have to follow FRA standards for safety?

VIA trains don't have to meet FRA standards in the first place, as they never run in the US.

They will still have to meet TC standards, however, as the VIA trains would have to operate with freights elsewhere on their system.

Furthermore, if 2 of the 4 tracks between burlington-Oshawa are only ever used by EMU's and never by VIA/other trains, can they be extempt from FRA standards?

FRA rules wouldn't apply, as the tracks aren't being built in the US.

But sure, you could in theory do that. But why? You are reducing the overall capacity of the corridor by doing that as you couldn't have an interconnections between the lines. You are also limiting the locations where the separated equipment could run. If you make it TC compliant, you can then run it anywhere in Canada.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Drum and Everyone: Good pictures of more European bilevel cars - some cars have interior clearance issues and I feel that GO should
use a EMU that has the best features of many other car types...Another system that has a large bi-level EMU fleet is Sydney's City Rail
Link: www.sydneytrains.info/about/fleet/ with multiple car types from at least two car builders...I remember reading that the C3 cars
that the LIRR bought in the late 90s were designed based on these EMUs - they have high-level platform-only access in common...

LI MIKE