GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[TOareaFan]

Read my post again. I said AD2W, not RER.

Right now, the Brampton hourly GO trains stop service too early for Toronto downtown dwellers (who live or study in/near Brampton). The extra trains is the expected continuance of hourly trains through Brampton.

There are other destinations along the northern reaches of Hurontario-Main, and quicker reach to Steeles. With Brampton's fast-growing transit ridership and the definitely increased GO service (TOAreaFan I do not care how you spin/RER/AD2W it, it's still increased GO train service) that I feel they were an ideal candidate to get LRT service.

(To be fair: Metrolinx's RER initiative includes both electric and diesels, and the AD2W is a subset of the broad-ranging RER umbrella if RER is a multilayered service term like the Paris/France definition rather than a type of train).

ok...but whether it is hourly service or ReR...the "missing" stretch of LRT between steeles and the GO train does not change access to any employment lands (present or future) in Brampton.

If someone is going to be employed in the south end of Brampton (the Steeles corridor) it would still be cheaper and easier/faster (even if LRT was built to downtown Brampton) to get off the GO at Bramalea and use the existing Zum service for the final leg to wherever you work. If you were going to be employed in Downtown Brampton....you would get off the train at Brampton and walk to your office. The LRT between DT and Steeles would not change the "attractiveness" of Brampton as an employment centre for someone living in Toronto......there are no employment lands in the "missing" stretch.

There may be reasons to promote/wish for a different decision re: H(M)LRT but the scenario you describe is not one of them.

 

[Allandale25]

Oh, and I missed this - extension of GO rail service to Niagara and Bowmanville (though no timeframe). And also new and improved GO bus connections to the GO rail network for communities such as Brantford and Cambridge.

They key line attached to Niagara and Bowmanville is "Subject to agreement with freight rail partners".

 

[SaugeenJunction]

They key line attached to Niagara and Bowmanville is "Subject to agreement with freight rail partners".

An agreement with freight partners shouldn't be far off for Niagara. The advocacy group that the region created has been crafting plans in conjunction with CN, thus what is proposed should be favourable to CN.

The extension to Bowmanville shouldn't be difficult either. GO's trains will travel on their own tracks, thus CP shouldn't be overly affected by this. Yes, there is a substantial amount of construction required for this extension, specifically a bridge over the 401 and a few stations, but there really shouldn't be (hopefully) much that CP would object to. Anyone know the price tag for this extension?

 

[mdrejhon]

They key line attached to Niagara and Bowmanville is "Subject to agreement with freight rail partners".

My perception is that Niagara GO negotiations are going extremely well.

See article: Niagara smashes through barriers to go rail expansion.
(This article was written well before the budget announcement)

The mutiple-municipality-funded Niagara GO advocacy have obliterated 17 barriers the province told them. Even won the coveted Welland Canal guarantee! And got the confirmation from CN that it is practical and workable.

Obviously, this is not an official CN agreement to operate but an agreement that the rail upgrades are favrouable and GO operations are workable to CN, and fits within the business case of all sides (including CN) within the budget that the Niagara mayors are actually paying a whole 1/3rd for.

From my watch of Hamilton GO expansions, activity is occuring at multiple construction sites between Aldershot and Grimsby, so shovels are already "money on the table" towards Niagara GO service. The moment that these became funded: West Harbour GO (the full completed 2017 version), the Lewis yard near Grimsby (~2016) and Stoney Creek GO (~2019) -- the barriers to Niagara GO service then fell pretty quickly. At this point, the municipalities in the Niagara area are so eager for GO there, they're already allocating budget (1/3rd of the cost of Niagara GO) and pre-investing money already even before full Metrolinx/provincial confirmation -- the Niagara GO project seems being railroaded pretty quickly to actually beginning by the end of this decade, with initial service introduction possibly as early as 2017.

Corollary: While the final count may differ, the proposed 14 Niagara/StCat trains a day (7 per direction, some terminating at StCat) is probably both directions in both morning/evening. This will likely automatically mean counter-peak Hamilton GO train service; since part of it is also GO trains going TOWARDS Niagara for commuting in morning, and AWAY from Niagara in the evening. Niagara wants to bring business to their region, and they wouldn't be spending all this money, just only to become a bedroom community. Two-way GO train service during both peaks (morning peak and evening peak) will also help Hamilton economically too.

 

[Allandale25]

Thanks for posting that map. I thought there was some discussion earlier that the new VIA GO Oshawa station would continue to be used for the downtown Hamilton "branch" to Oshawa route. The Confederation/Niagara service would go all the way to Bowmanville. What do you think mdrejhon?

Here's a version I've created:

 

[mdrejhon]

A faster express train service from Oshawa to Hamilton?

That would be interesting to hear options for; but realistically I'm curious if there's a business case in the light of cheaper all-day 2-way 30-minute GO service with lots of offpeak capacity and mostly unsupervised walkon-walkoff convenience.

Currently, my understanding is that transfers will still be required at Union. I am imagining that any improved VIA service involves a VIA train departing from Toronto going all the way to Niagara Falls and utilizing a Hamilton stop -- taking advantage of the infrastructure improvements that are occuring in the next few years. In the other direction, VIA trains stopping at Oshawa are going to be at Kingston, too.

But then again, I'm interested how the dead-end spurs will work -- are there really plans to terminate VIA service at these Oshawa spurs? That would be news to me.

I suspect the new station doesn't necessarily mean service will be continued on those specific spurs, as there are the through tracks that VIA does stop on (if I understand correctly).

 

[Allandale25]

But then again, I'm interested how the dead-end spurs will work -- are there really plans to terminate VIA service at these Oshawa spurs? That would be news to me.

I suspect the new station doesn't necessarily mean service will be continued on those specific spurs, as there are the through tracks that VIA does stop on (if I understand correctly).

Never thought of that and I certainly wasn't suggesting it - apologies if I was unclear. I think the VIA service would continue as it is today. Yes, it will be interesting to see how the spurs are handled. I think I've also read here that the GO service might have some issues stopping directly in Bowmaville. There's way more parking near the CN line. Maybe they'll do a GO-CP-CN (with separate GO tracks beside the freight railways). Here's the area I'm talking about for a CN station in Bowmanville.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Well with additional bus service to Brantford and Cambridge, do you think we will finally see linkages between Hamilton/Niagara and the Tri-City/Guelph area?

 

[Komiksulo]

I was looking at Bowmanville on Google Maps. There doesn't seem to be a lot of room along the CP line through Bowmanville for two more tracks, let alone a station, without a lot of land acquisition and demolition. A station there would make a lot of sense from a walkability perspective, though.

The thing that bothers me about the plan presented upthread around Oshawa station is essentially that it wastes connectivity. It removes a connection between VIA, GO, and local transport.

It adds a Thornton station that seems unnecessary, but on second thought isn't too far from the Trent campus, and is on a bus route that passes Trent and both Durham campuses.

I still think extending the existing GO tracks eastward, and curving them up and over the 401 on the west side of the CP spur is a better idea, assuming the grades and curves aren't an issue.

Looking at the track plan, there's some sort of overpass taking the GO tracks over the CP spur? It looks like the wye joining the spur to the CP mainline is in a depression, so it might not be too bad keeping the GO line on an embankment and swinging it a little west and then around and east over the spur.

Google Maps makes it hard to see the elevations, but I know that there's a valley west of the GO station, where the existing proposal has the line crossing the 401.

 

[nfitz]

I'd assume the EA shows how the new tracks would fit in - http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/improve/ea_oshawabowmanville.aspx

 

[Duck]

Spotted one of the all-new Bombardier Bi-Level Cab Cars this morning at the Kitchener Layover Facility! First time I've seen one in person. So sharp!

 

[TOareaFan]

yes...i like the look of these very much.

Anyone know how many are in service now?

 

[Megaton327]

I tracked one down once and rode it for a while--I definitely loved the look of the exterior, and the interior with the wood finish and nicer lighting, plus the washroom with the electric hand dryer etc. was a good upgrade over the current cars.

That said, I found the seats substantially less comfortable than the current ones--the space between them for small parcels was nice, but after just a few minutes of actually sitting in one I decided to move to a different car.

 

[reaperexpress]

Now that you mention it, it is odd that they stop at Aurora - it's not much further to Newmarket (and East Gwillimbury). But that's what they've been talking about this whole time. I wonder what the constraint is. Though presumably there can be a good connecting bus service from Aurora.

The constraint is track capacity. Progress is well underway to complete double track from Union to King City, but I've not seen anything beyond there. GTS included a pair of dedicated tracks for the Barrie line until it splits off (track yet to be installed, but structures are complete). From there to Steeles, double tracking is trivial - the structures are all there since there had been double track in the past and Downsview Park station was designed for at least two tracks. Construction of a second mainline track is nearly complete from Steeles to Rutherford, which was fairly straightforward apart from the need to widen the embankment south of Langstaff. Finally, there is a pre-existing segment of double track between Maple and King City stations that built in 2011 to support the two-way summer weekend service.

The ROW looks fine from King City to Aurora, so that will probably be on the table in the near future. Similarly, Rutherford and Maple stations need to be rebuilt to support double track, and there appears to be sufficient space to do so. But through Aurora and Newmarket, the ROW is highly constrained, to the point that Metrolinx may need to look into a different ROW, such as the abandoned railway immediately to the east at Newmarket station.

I wouldn't go as far as ShonTron in saying they "don't want" to extend RER to Mount Pleasant and East Gwillimbury, but certainly the infrastructure obstacles are large enough to deter them from being destinations in the initial rollout.

 

[Allandale25]

But through Aurora and Newmarket, the ROW is highly constrained, to the point that Metrolinx may need to look into a different ROW, such as the abandoned railway immediately to the east at Newmarket station.

Which rail line was that? When was it abandoned?