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GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

From today at Exhibition.

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Not sure if this has been posted yet:

"Thank you to those of you who attended our Scarborough-Markham Railway Expansion Public Meeting on Tuesday, December 8 at the Agincourt Community Centre. We have gathered the questions raised in the meeting and these are available for review here. The presentation for the meeting can be found here.

As mentioned, we will be having regular meetings and opportunities for residents to find out more about the project. Stay tuned for the March invitation. There will also be public meetings in June and September.

In the meantime, you can stay connected by contacting your Community Relations Team, at scarboroughmarkham@metrolinx.com or by calling 416.244.5303. For more information on the project, please visit our website at metrolinx.com/RERscarboroughmarkham."
 
That pretty much ends SmartTrack as anything other than a 15-minute RER service, with 4 tracks in much of the corridor. You'd need 2 more for more frequent SmartTrack service. You might have been able to squeeze 5 in, but not 6.
 
innsertnamehere said:
I forsee upgraded signalling systems to squeeze in Smart Track on existing trackage.
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For every 10-minute service ... maybe. For every 5-minute service? You need 2 dedicated tracks.

With the reported demand for every 5-minute service, they might have to ultimately run every 3-minute service.
 
nfitz said:
For every 10-minute service ... maybe. For every 5-minute service? You need 2 dedicated tracks.

With the reported demand for every 5-minute service, they might have to ultimately run every 3-minute service.
Click to expand...

Unless...you run a 5-minute stoppoing RER on two of the four tracks, routing it towards Agincourt, and an express RER that only stops east of Scarboro on LSE on a 15-minute headway on the other two, intermingled with VIA. You could give the stopping RER a fancy brand name. Like, say, Something-ending-in-Track.

LSE would need new signals, as the current block lengths are too long for 5- minute headways. The block lenghts directly correlate to how frequently trains can operate.

- Paul
 
nfitz said:
That pretty much ends SmartTrack as anything other than a 15-minute RER service, with 4 tracks in much of the corridor. You'd need 2 more for more frequent SmartTrack service. You might have been able to squeeze 5 in, but not 6.
Click to expand...

Metrolinx/GO like doing things incrementally for maximum expenditure and time used.

More seriously, the funded electrification test on Lake Shore East is in the critical path for RER (and Smart Track) and this track was presented (unofficially at least) as a requirement for that test. This is in-line with the Barrie Line tender for a small piece (passing track, a few station modifications) of the required RER infrastructure simply because it was ready to go.


They'll happily issue another contract for another track or 2 at a later time. Still needs an EA, expropriation, and funding. Promised funding and a firm agreement are 2 very different things, it can take the feds years to work out details of an agreement and the city has no funding plan at all for it's share (likely going to require a tax bump to boost borrowing cap).
 
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crs1026 said:
Unless...you run a 5-minute stoppoing RER on two of the four tracks, routing it towards Agincourt, and an express RER that only stops east of Scarboro on LSE on a 15-minute headway on the other two, intermingled with VIA. You could give the stopping RER a fancy brand name. Like, say, Something-ending-in-Track.l
Click to expand...
That leaves you with only 2 tracks for the VIA/Lakeshore East services - yet today you already need 3 tracks for that services east of Scarborough Junction, let alone once RER is complete! And that leaves nothing for the Stouffville non SmartTrack trains.
 
nfitz said:
That leaves you with only 2 tracks for the VIA/Lakeshore East services - yet today you already need 3 tracks for that services east of Scarborough Junction, let alone once RER is complete! And that leaves nothing for the Stouffville non SmartTrack trains.
Click to expand...

True, if the RER express was to stop west of Scarboro there would be a problem. But VIA can coexist with express RER on 2 tracks Scarboro-Union provided RER doesn't stop.

I was thinking that RER-LSE trains would run express Union-Scarboro, duck onto their own tracks east of Scarboro (there is an EA under way for a 3rd track east of Guildwood, why not go for 4 Scarboro-Durham Jct) and begin making stops east of there. You could have RER-LSE make the stops closer in also, in which case they have to get out of VIA's way....but it makes more sense to have the Agincourt trains make all stops so that it's a true transit-flavoured RER. LSE customers won't mind skipping stops between Union and Eglinton.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
True, if the RER express was to stop west of Scarboro there would be a problem. But VIA can coexist with express RER on 2 tracks Scarboro-Union provided RER doesn't stop.
Click to expand...
It's not the express trains that are the issue, but the 15-minute Lakeshore East service. Might be able to skip Scarborough, but there's a lot of traffic to and from Danforth, with people changing there to the subway.
 
nfitz said:
It's not the express trains that are the issue, but the 15-minute Lakeshore East service. Might be able to skip Scarborough, but there's a lot of traffic to and from Danforth, with people changing there to the subway.
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you mad? There ain't NOOOOBOODDDYYY transferring there. Its all local use. The GO fare integration program got something like 30 purchasers.

lastman_badboy.jpg
 
innsertnamehere said:
you mad? There ain't NOOOOBOODDDYYY transferring there. Its all local use. The GO fare integration program got something like 30 purchasers.
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This just isn't true. Everytime I'm boarding there, heading into Union, I see people on the eastbound platform, heading in the Oshawa direction (that train leaves 4 minutes before the westbound, typically).

The fare integration program, does nothing for those people, who are riding between Danforth and stations further east. It's only for passengers who travel between Danforth and Union and Danforth and Exhibition.

It's true that the uptake on that is low (though much higher at Danforth than Union). But it has nothing to do with Lakeshore East service - if anything, it demonstrates how little demand for SmartTrack running every 15 minutes.
 
^well, I was making a joke with the NOBODY statement, But to be clear it is barely more than a trickle of passengers. Maybe 5-10 people for every GO train.
 
crs1026 said:
True, if the RER express was to stop west of Scarboro there would be a problem. But VIA can coexist with express RER on 2 tracks Scarboro-Union provided RER doesn't stop.

I was thinking that RER-LSE trains would run express Union-Scarboro, duck onto their own tracks east of Scarboro (there is an EA under way for a 3rd track east of Guildwood, why not go for 4 Scarboro-Durham Jct) and begin making stops east of there. You could have RER-LSE make the stops closer in also, in which case they have to get out of VIA's way....but it makes more sense to have the Agincourt trains make all stops so that it's a true transit-flavoured RER. LSE customers won't mind skipping stops between Union and Eglinton.
Click to expand...

So is it possible that in the future, LSE won't have stops between Scarb and Union? That wouldn't be smart if such a thing happens. More like a grave mistake.

If we're to forfeit the majority of the Union-Scarb Jct corridor, it'd make much more sense to have the biggest piece of the pie go to LSE RER instead of Stouffville / SmrtTrack East. Or better yet an interlined LSE+LSW. With express and local service the line would serve the eastern waterfront area, which I think is crucial. Particularly if the Port Lands and LDL become an extension of the CBD, and/or we get an Expo or something. Hamilton, Burlington, Oakville, Sauga, Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, Oshawa, Bowmanville... so basically the whole GTHA waterfront connected to Toronto's waterfront and area east of downtown. With the Stouffville line there's only really a single centre at Unionville and way too little population to draw from for it to be given the bulk of this critical section.

This current situation where we've elevated Stouffville to priority electrified local and express RER definitely makes me question whether it's politics, not expert evidence, behind the whole thing. The Union-Scarb Jct corridor is too important to be squandered.
 
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