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Globe: Second NHL Team for Toronto?

I think if if push comes to shove for Toronto to get a NFL team, commissioner Roger Goodell is much more flexible on the idea than Gary Bettman is to have a NHL team come to Toronto.
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I agree. The NFL is a shrewd business and run very well. The NHL is something of a joke. If Toronto is deemed financially viable and would be the next logical NFL market, I'm sure we'll get our team. The NHL doesn't seem to follow that kind of logic. They're more interested in stuffing the league with American markets ensuring most Stanley Cups will have two American teams to increase US tv ratings. The NFL wouldn't struggle for ratings if the superbowl was between the St Johns Newfies and the Guam whatevers....

If the NHL had any brains at all a city like Seattle would have been awarded a team way before a city like Phoenix, with a few exceptions the NHL is a northern US and Canadian league and somehow that's exactly the market they have abandoned any idea of cashing in on.
 
It will not happen, Balssalies is nut's. Toronto can barely support one team what make people think it can support two. And don't be saying ACC is always sold out, because it's not, if it were sold out people would be in the seats. :mad:
 
SimplyOE said:
It will not happen, Balssalies is nut's. Toronto can barely support one team what make people think it can support two. And don't be saying ACC is always sold out, because it's not, if it were sold out people would be in the seats. :mad:
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It's the most profitable franchise in the NHL.
 
wonderboy416 said:
If the NHL had any brains at all a city like Seattle would have been awarded a team way before a city like Phoenix, with a few exceptions the NHL is a northern US and Canadian league and somehow that's exactly the market they have abandoned any idea of cashing in on.
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Franchises are seldom (ever?) awarded on the basis of a league saying "we are going to this city, now let's strike a deal with the city"

It is far more typical that the league says "we are going to expand in this year by that number of teams" then accepts bids/proposals from ownership groups (not cities).

When the Winnipeg situation came up, either there was no competing bid from Seattle (likely) or that the bid was not as strong.....so they were sold (by previous Jets ownership not the NHL) to a group moving them to Phoenix.

This whole "that city first" notion that people have just does not exist....they deal with owners then cities....not the other way around.
 
This whole "that city first" notion that people have just does not exist....they deal with owners then cities....not the other way around.
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You're saying certain markets aren't preferred over others????
The NBA chose Toronto and Vancouver despite several strong bids from US cities as David Stern announced their intentions to take the game global... they were markets the NBA wanted, it was just a matter of which ownership groups were chosen. The NBA clearly chose Toronto first and the ownership second. That's how expansion usually works. The NFL CHOSE Jacksonsville... Relocations may be different you're partly right... but when it comes to expansion you'd be wrong to think the league doesn't pick the market. I'd be willing to bet the NHL wouldn't be standing in the way if someone were trying to move the Coyotes to Kansas City.
 
GenerationW said:
The Leafs couldn't sell out for most of the 80's (less than 16,000 seats) unless the game was against one of the marquee teams. It really took the move to the ACC and the relaunch of the Leafs brand (i.e. going totally corporate) to guarantee sell outs.
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Do you have a source for this? I've always heard that they've had constant sellouts since the 40s. There are claims for that all over the internet, including ballparks.com, which lists actual attendance as far back as 1992.

BTW, Maple Leaf Gardens capacity for hockey varied from the high 15,000s to the low 16,000s, so naturally they never had higher attendance than that in the 80s.
 
I don't know if sports use this benchmark, but in the performing arts a 'sold-out' performance is one where 80% or more of the tickets were sold. That could be what the Leafs are using.
 
I don't know if sports use this benchmark, but in the performing arts a 'sold-out' performance is one where 80% or more of the tickets were sold. That could be what the Leafs are using.
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The standard used is number of tickets sold, period. Turnstile counts aren't factored in.

Amazingly enough, I believe the Toronto Blue Jays are now the only team in all of North American pro sports to count attendance based on the number of people who actually show up.
 
DHLawrence85 said:
I don't know if sports use this benchmark, but in the performing arts a 'sold-out' performance is one where 80% or more of the tickets were sold. That could be what the Leafs are using.
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Nope, a sellout is when every seat is sold out. The claim that's all over the internet is that there hasn't been an unsold seat for a Leafs game since 1946. According to ballparks.com, attendance at Maple Leaf Gardens was 99% of capacity from 1992 until they moved into the ACC. I don't know if that's tickets sold or butts in seats. According to ESPN (which has more current numbers), attendance at the ACC has been 102% of capacity every year. I'm not sure how you can have more than 100% capacity, standing room maybe, but 8 teams managed it last season.
 
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When I say support, I'm also refering to the blessing of the people. The majority of the people don't even bother watching on TV, let alone ever attend a game. Like when I'm at my parents place they don't ever watch the Leafs. That is way they lose I think, not enough people to harness power from.
 
SimplyOE, will all do respect, I think you're completely out of your mind and have no idea what you're talking about.

Case in point:

Toronto can barely support one team what make people think it can support two. And don't be saying ACC is always sold out, because it's not, if it were sold out people would be in the seats.
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The corporate guys with the platinum seats often show up late and spend half the game out of their seat anyway, that doesn't mean it's not sold out.. the seats are accounted for. To say Toronto can barely support one team when it's got a rich tradition of never winning anything (in most Torontontians lifetimes) and is still the most profitable franchise in hockey tells me how far off base you are. Do you even live in the GTA? Do you know what the NHL is? Toronto would have no problem supporting a second team, heck it could probably support a third.

Ok, then where will they play?
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Umm... Copps? Downsview? MCC? Any number of other sites, this wouldn't even be an issue.

When I say support, I'm also refering to the blessing of the people. The majority of the people don't even bother watching on TV, let alone ever attend a game. Like when I'm at my parents place they don't ever watch the Leafs. That is way they lose I think, not enough people to harness power from.
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Of course the majority of the people don't watch on tv. Imagine if the majority of the people ever watched ANYTHING on tv? That would be the all-time greatest rated tv program for sure. The Leafs, despite being horrible get terrific TV ratings, the best local ratings in the league. They even have their own TV channel and the many sports networks do nothing but talk about hockey and Leafs on game day. What planet do you live on again?

I also didn't know that hockey players drew power from your parents when they watched the game on tv. That's quite fascinating. Surely your parents not watching the Leafs are the reason why they lose and why Toronto could never have a second NHL team :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I sure hope your posts are some kind of joke...
 
MisterF said:
I'm not sure how you can have more than 100% capacity, standing room maybe, but 8 teams managed it last season.
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Arenas/Stadiums set their capacities by counting available seats, standing room and mandatory ticket sales in boxes/clubs.

The premium seats (clubs and boxes) usually have options to take up more seats if they want.

Simple example....if I have a 16 seat box at Skydome I am mandated to take 16 seats to every game but, on a game by game basis, I may take, say, 8 more tickets to games.

So on a night when all seats and standing room are sold if all of your box holders take up their options you will be over 100% sold....this is the norm at the ACC.

The logic behind not including these seats in "capacity" is that, unlike other seats, if I do not take up my extra options in the boxes the team has no right to sell them to other customers....so it is a one-way customer option.
 
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