junctionist
Senior Member
I would have simply explained said something like "it's a matter of safety", which I don't think is self-righteous. But typically the first time you encounter something like that it's not pretty.
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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)
- Thread starter rp07
- Start date
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
Quite right. I should have said I'd affirm at him, in which case I'd have raised right my right hand so as to not cause confusion with the right turn signal.
3Dementia
Senior Member
Is Toronto bike friendly?
I guess I misunderstood the thread title... because I have yet to meet a "friendly" cyclist. ;-)
Not on the sidewalk (thought I had the right of way here), not when I am signaling a right turn, very close to the curb... and just miss killing the 2 fingers raised, 10 speed-freak, screaming maniac who blind-sided me.
I'll help build 100 kilometres of new bike lanes in the city, if cyclists agree to police the many, many "assholes" on 2 wheels. It's true. There's just as many on 2 wheels.
So put away the bible until basic courtesy and etiquette is exhibited by the oh so politically-correct, non-polluting, but life-threating 2 wheelers who inhabit the city.
OK, I just admitted I have a car. 330i. Love it. But.... only drive it twice week, usually for golf and wine in Niagara with mommy. So don't demonize me or I'll drive every day.
I guess I misunderstood the thread title... because I have yet to meet a "friendly" cyclist. ;-)
Not on the sidewalk (thought I had the right of way here), not when I am signaling a right turn, very close to the curb... and just miss killing the 2 fingers raised, 10 speed-freak, screaming maniac who blind-sided me.
I'll help build 100 kilometres of new bike lanes in the city, if cyclists agree to police the many, many "assholes" on 2 wheels. It's true. There's just as many on 2 wheels.
So put away the bible until basic courtesy and etiquette is exhibited by the oh so politically-correct, non-polluting, but life-threating 2 wheelers who inhabit the city.
OK, I just admitted I have a car. 330i. Love it. But.... only drive it twice week, usually for golf and wine in Niagara with mommy. So don't demonize me or I'll drive every day.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
See how quickly such a discussion degenerates into a bike vs. car vs. pedestrian argument? But let's take it back again to bike friendly. A city can build all the lovely infrastructure it wants (and I think we need much more of it) but when it comes down to it drivers and pedestrians in the old city of Toronto at least expect to share (or choose to not share the road) with cyclists. This is actually a big issue. I've biked in many cities. In Chicago and New York drivers and pedestrians seemed not to know what the hell to do with you when you are on a bike like you are some kind of UFO or something.
MisterF
Senior Member
lol...I find it ironic that you mention winter as a barrier for cycling... right after mentioning Montreal of all cities as an example. Just goes to show we can't use winter as an excuse for making the city more bicycle friendly.
E
Erik T
Guest
Barriers for bike paths would make a world of difference. Imagine if just a few cross-town arterial streets had these paths- how many cyclist-commuters and the like would use these lanes, thus freeing up more space on other roads for the almighty automobile? If a timid cyclist knew they could cross town with no greater risk than a collision with another cyclist, wouldn't they be likely to gravitate to such bike paths?
Truth be told, bike paths with no barriers are virtually meaningless. Just try explaining the bike lane to any motorist on Gerrard, whether they park in it, or use it to speed on the non-passing side of the road so they can have pole position at the inevitable red light, whether it's Jarvis, Sherbourne, Parliament, River or the bridge. How about that Spadina placebo-bike lane? Or Bay Street's taxi-bus and bike lane? They're terrible.
Cars will ignore a mere painted line, and nothing short of a prohibitive barrier will make a bike lane useful. Some European cities do this.
Truth be told, bike paths with no barriers are virtually meaningless. Just try explaining the bike lane to any motorist on Gerrard, whether they park in it, or use it to speed on the non-passing side of the road so they can have pole position at the inevitable red light, whether it's Jarvis, Sherbourne, Parliament, River or the bridge. How about that Spadina placebo-bike lane? Or Bay Street's taxi-bus and bike lane? They're terrible.
Cars will ignore a mere painted line, and nothing short of a prohibitive barrier will make a bike lane useful. Some European cities do this.
rp07
Active Member
Having a barrier for bike only lanes would be a dream come true for most cyclists, but with city already cash strapped for money I doubt that's going to happen real soon. I can only dream...
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Bike lanes with prohibitive barriers on both sides would make a lot of pedestrians happy too.
A
artgeek
Guest
Out of curiosity, are cyclists in TO required to pay license or registration fees? (ex-cyclist, but never two-wheeled it in TO)
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
I don't see the irony there but I do agree that our winters are a barrier for many cyclists so Toronto is not very "bike friendly" during those cold winter months. I could be wrong but I think it's fair to say that a good portion of cyclists in Montreal don't ride when it's bitter cold or when snow/slush are on the roads as like Toronto. I admire the dedicated, brave souls I see spinning around in that kind of weather but it's pretty unpleasant for most people and as I suggested, somewhat unsafe under those conditions.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
Your points are valid but the percentage of law abiding, road-riding cyclists is high. I'm on the roads & in the lanes every day; I observe those cycling around me and most are good. It's perhaps in the 20% range who think it's ok to ride on sidewalks, who don't obey the rules of the road and cycle aggressively which makes the majority of cyclists look bad from a driver's point of view. There's plenty of "friendly cyclists" out there who ride safely. Like me!
Chuck
Senior Member
There's a large difference between an aggressive driver and an aggressive cyclist. The aggressive driver will speed, weave, and cruise through stop signs. In other words, they stretch the rules of the road, but rarely commit a blatant offense. They are within the range of predictable, and really just another obstacle for a good a defensive driver.
Your aggresive cyclist on the other hand is a maniac on wheels. They drive the wrong way on one way streets, go through red lights, drive the wrong way on TWO way streets, and drive between lanes. There is absolutely no predicting where, when, or how you'll encounter an aggressive cyclist because rules are irrelevant to them. Worst of all, they'll give you the finger when you save their life by honking and narrowly avoid them.
Your aggresive cyclist on the other hand is a maniac on wheels. They drive the wrong way on one way streets, go through red lights, drive the wrong way on TWO way streets, and drive between lanes. There is absolutely no predicting where, when, or how you'll encounter an aggressive cyclist because rules are irrelevant to them. Worst of all, they'll give you the finger when you save their life by honking and narrowly avoid them.
Mongo
Senior Member
But there is a big difference in the potential damage an aggressive driver can cause, versus the potential damage an aggressive cyclist can cause. For the most part, the most damage a collision with a bicycle will do to a pedestrian is a few bruises, maybe a broken bone if the pedestrian is elderly. An automobile, on the other hand, can easily kill that pedestrian.
I am not excusing the behavior of aggressive cyclists. But aggressive or drunk drivers are a far greater danger, both to pedestrian and cyclists, and to other drivers and/or auto passengers.
Bill
I am not excusing the behavior of aggressive cyclists. But aggressive or drunk drivers are a far greater danger, both to pedestrian and cyclists, and to other drivers and/or auto passengers.
Bill
TKTKTK
Senior Member
You're being very, very generous with your figure. In fact, I would say most cyclists have NO IDEA what rules of the road (if any) apply to them, never mind 80% of them following those rules.
Just on my way home from work I saw three different cyclists riding the wrong way down three different streets, two or three that ran red lights, plus one brainiac riding without any lights. In effect, on my drive home today, not ONE cyclist obeyed the rules of the road.
TKTKTK
Senior Member
No driver in Toronto breaks the rules of the road in the same manner as cyclists. No where near as close.
I've never seen a driver kick it up onto the sidewalk to avoid a line of cars, or blast through intersections against the light without slowing down or looking first. And if I did see a driver do that...the word "aggressive" wouldn't come to mind.