Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Leo_Chan]

I don't see that at all? Its completely different than the SRT. The subway would loop thru the heart of Scarborough on Sheppard and drop down at either Kennedy or McCowan and create a full loop to SCC (assuming Sheppard West is also built) and the LRT would be a massive line which would go all the way to Pearson and run locally as a fully East-West local line the way to Morningside and loop back up thru Malvern to the Subway on Sheppard. This would be an amazing line on its own and the transfer would be in a much more logical place near the heart of Scarborough. Add GO RER on Lawrence and Finch with improved Bus service and its a very good plan.

I see this being heavily supported and for an extra costs of the subway it alleviates internal City subway bickering. And if they are not going to go back and do something to re-jig the Sheppard subway than this is logical end game for the subway. No matter what is decided for Sheppard I would not expect to see anything in the new couple decades but the SSE only gives this subway loop idea greater support IMO

Lets say someone wants to go from the STC to Somewhere on the Yonge Line. They need to take 3 modes, not 2, unless they go all the way to B-Y.

Let's say an extension to Malvern is built, which of the following has the highest chance to happen?

I would say that Part Sheppard with Eglinton Loop is the most likely option as it is probably the most cost effective.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

My preference would be to build the Sheppard LRT, with one branch to Malvern via Scarborough Town Centre and another branch east to Morningside via Sheppard. Alternately, the latter branch could be replaced by BRT or enhanced bus services to be more cost effective.

The LRT could potentially be grade separated between Don Mills and Kennedy. This would mean that the entire branch to Malvern via STC would be grade separated.

Sheppard Subway could optionally be converted to LRT operations. Personally, I don't think this conversion is worth the price with the presence of the Relief Line.

 

[sixrings]

my preference would be to serve malvern through a eglinton crosstown lrt and a finch crosstown lrt

 

[amnesiajune]

Sheppard Subway could optionally be converted to LRT operations.

It's not feasible at all. You'd have to shut down the subway line for years, rebuild all the stations to accomodate low-floor LRVs, and rebuild the subway tunnel to be slightly larger, so the LRVs can run through it. And while the subway is closed, the TTC would need to use half of its articulated bus fleet to fit Sheppard's passengers during rush hour.

It would probably be cheaper to just extend the subway line.

 

[OneCity]

Let's say an extension to Malvern is built, which of the following has the highest chance to happen?

View attachment 119220

I would say that Part Sheppard with Eglinton Loop is the most likely option as it is probably the most cost effective.

That's similar to what I would expect as the long term plan. But don't really believe the SSE will be extended to Sheppard at McCowan and it will most likely dip down at Kennedy in Agincourt and pick up a stop at Brimley South of the 401

Lets say someone wants to go from the STC to Somewhere on the Yonge Line. They need to take 3 modes, not 2, unless they go all the way to B-Y.

Now is see what your saying. I agree to an extent for that improved bus to the subway is more than adequate for most areas surrounding. The subway should then be extended to Markham and Milner in this instance. I just don't expect this outcome for a long term plan due to Politics of UTSC and a few priority areas which will likely be connected to the Eglinton Crosstown

 

[Hopkins123]

my preference would be to serve malvern through a eglinton crosstown lrt and a finch crosstown lrt

Remember folks, Finch LRT in it's first iteration isn't even complete yet. To suggest that we invest money there and not to the Sheppard corridor as a Crosstown route is wishful thinking at best. Either a hybrid Finch-Sheppard solution, or leave Finch out of it, IMO.

 

[micheal_can]

Let's say an extension to Malvern is built, which of the following has the highest chance to happen?

View attachment 119220

I would say that Part Sheppard with Eglinton Loop is the most likely option as it is probably the most cost effective.

When has the city done something cost effective?

It's not feasible at all. You'd have to shut down the subway line for years, rebuild all the stations to accomodate low-floor LRVs, and rebuild the subway tunnel to be slightly larger, so the LRVs can run through it. And while the subway is closed, the TTC would need to use half of its articulated bus fleet to fit Sheppard's passengers during rush hour.

It would probably be cheaper to just extend the subway line.

Which is why I still think that a Sheppard Subway Line is the most likely. A new line elsewhere, LRT may be feasible.

Remember folks, Finch LRT in it's first iteration isn't even complete yet. To suggest that we invest money there and not to the Sheppard corridor as a Crosstown route is wishful thinking at best. Either a hybrid Finch-Sheppard solution, or leave Finch out of it, IMO.

Shhhh, people don't want their dreams of a good transit system ignored.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It's not feasible at all. You'd have to shut down the subway line for years, rebuild all the stations to accomodate low-floor LRVs, and rebuild the subway tunnel to be slightly larger, so the LRVs can run through it. And while the subway is closed, the TTC would need to use half of its articulated bus fleet to fit Sheppard's passengers during rush hour.

It would probably be cheaper to just extend the subway line.

There's not much value in converting the Sheppard Line to LRT in the first place. Few riders will be making the trip to Yonge once the Relief Line is open.

 

[sixrings]

Remember folks, Finch LRT in it's first iteration isn't even complete yet. To suggest that we invest money there and not to the Sheppard corridor as a Crosstown route is wishful thinking at best. Either a hybrid Finch-Sheppard solution, or leave Finch out of it, IMO.

Im confused to why? Sheppard residents are basically demanding a subway or a costly conversion. Finch on the other hand could be extended for far less money and would help malvern riders get to the yonge line just as well. It sure seems like scarborough says it wants transit but only a particular form of transit.

 

[robmausser]

It's not feasible at all. You'd have to shut down the subway line for years, rebuild all the stations to accomodate low-floor LRVs, and rebuild the subway tunnel to be slightly larger, so the LRVs can run through it. And while the subway is closed, the TTC would need to use half of its articulated bus fleet to fit Sheppard's passengers during rush hour.

It would probably be cheaper to just extend the subway line.

Its totally feasible and cheaper than extending the subway line.

All it would need is some specialized LRTs for the Sheppard line only, which everyone here thinks is a huge deal, but its not.

All you need is a high platform LRT like they use in Calgary

Put high platforms on Sheppard Ave

and have a dual pantograph/third rail setup on the lrt

The blue line in Boston has this

notice the contact shoe and pantograph.

When the train goes into the tunnel, the pantograph lowers out of the way to fit into the tunnel, and the third rail powers the train.

If you built the LRTs to TTC guage, very litte to no modifications would be needed to made to the Sheppard subway tunnel.

 

[LNahid2000]

Its totally feasible and cheaper than extending the subway line.

All it would need is some specialized LRTs for the Sheppard line only, which everyone here thinks is a huge deal, but its not.

All you need is a high platform LRT like they use in Calgary

Put high platforms on Sheppard Ave

and have a dual pantograph/third rail setup on the lrt

The blue line in Boston has this

notice the contact shoe and pantograph.

When the train goes into the tunnel, the pantograph lowers out of the way to fit into the tunnel, and the third rail powers the train.

If you built the LRTs to TTC guage, very litte to no modifications would be needed to made to the Sheppard subway tunnel.

Yep, another example is the Amstelveen Line in Amsterdam which runs on the street in the suburbs, and shares stations with subway trains in the city.

Line 51 was opened as a rapid tram (sneltram) on 2 Dec 1990, it shares tracks with the metro line from Centraal Station to Spaklerweg, then part of the ring line 50 to Station Zuid, and finally it runs south to Amstelveen on a separate right-of-way but with level crossings. The light rail vehicles used on this line are narrower than the metro cars, therefore they have a platform fixed to the doors to bridge the gap at metro platforms, this platform is folded down at Station Zuid, where also the pantograph is lifted up for overhead power supply along the street level section south to Amstelveen. As far as Oranjebaan these tracks are also used by standard tram line 5 (to Binnenhof), therefore stops have platforms with two different levels (like many German Stadtbahn networks). Some stops have an island platform. On 13 Sept 2004, a 2 km extension was added, with three new stations, Spinnerij, Sacharovlaan and Westwijk.

http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/nl/ams/amsterdam.htm

 

[amnesiajune]

All it would need is some specialized LRTs for the Sheppard line only, which everyone here thinks is a huge deal, but its not. All you need is a high platform LRT like they use in Calgary

Is it worth the steep cost of designing, building and maintaining a one-of-a-kind system? There are also the reliability problems that those sort of systems get. Streetcar switches for example: they're unreliable because they were custom made for Toronto and nowhere else, so whenever a part breaks the TTC has to find someone who will make it on-demand.

 

[LNahid2000]

Is it worth the steep cost of designing, building and maintaining a one-of-a-kind system? There are also the reliability problems that those sort of systems get. Streetcar switches for example: they're unreliable because they were custom made for Toronto and nowhere else, so whenever a part breaks the TTC has to find someone who will make it on-demand.

It's far less of a cost than tunneling to STC, and this type of system could be extended beyond STC. This type of system works incredibly well in Amsterdam.

 

[micheal_can]

Im confused to why? Sheppard residents are basically demanding a subway or a costly conversion. Finch on the other hand could be extended for far less money and would help malvern riders get to the yonge line just as well. It sure seems like scarborough says it wants transit but only a particular form of transit.

You mean like York, North York, East York, Etobicoke, and downtown have done?

 

[amnesiajune]

It's far less of a cost than tunneling to STC

You're certain of that because...

and this type of system could be extended beyond STC

Remember how people said that about the SRT? And yet here it is, thirty years later, still on its own and running under capacity during rush hour because the TTC can't reliably keep six of their seven trainsets working.