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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Torstar continues their unrelenting assault on the people of Scarborough: http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...ts-cracks-in-political-subway-deal-james.html

I'm pretty sure that we can count on the Star to keep this thread alive by writing bi-monthly articles on why the LRT was a better option.

If the Eglinton LRT was built as a western Skytrain extension of the SRT I'd be in favour of an upgrade, but otherwise I don't see a point in upgrading the SRT, which seems to be Royson James' preferred option.
 
I'm pretty sure that we can count on the Star to keep this thread alive by writing bi-monthly articles on why the LRT was a better option.

If the Eglinton LRT was built as a western Skytrain extension of the SRT I'd be in favour of an upgrade, but otherwise I don't see a point in upgrading the SRT, which seems to be Royson James' preferred option.

It's tough to fight Toronto's most powerful self absorbed political machine when they can control the narrative. They just keep throwing out "facts" until something sticks. Disheartening to say the least.

Royson is being a company man. Hes really has no set direction whatsoever but to find ways oppose the subway. Its not just him theres many others in the Metroland news crew that get the same green light to try to throw dirt at Scarborough at the same time every 2-4 weeks in all there propaganda publishing's.
 
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I would not be surprised if we see Tory and/or the province proposing a Scarborough Spur to be added to SmartTrack/RER, and using that as an excuse to let council torpedo the subway.

That option would greatly reduce capacity. I think it would only be possible to run GO trains every 15 minutes because this would mean that the Scarborough spur becomes part of the Stouffville line and is running to Union Station.

As far as I can tell, the expensive subway option is the only option that does not require a transfer at Kennedy.
 
Wavering public support puts cracks in political subway deal: James
scarborough-rt.jpg.size.xxlarge.letterbox.jpg

ALEX CONSIGLIO / TORONTO STAR Order this photo

The Scarborough RT has never been upgraded - unlike the SkyTrain system in Vancouver that uses similar technology.

By: Royson James Toronto Politics, Published on Wed Aug 05 2015
Premier Kathleen Wynne and Mayor John Tory (open John Tory's policard) no doubt share a common unease about their stubborn, unsubstantiated faith in the proposed Scarborough subway. But the doctrine of political expediency helps them keep the faith.

Even as they mouth support for the project that is essentially a $2-billion over-build of transit infrastructure, both political leaders know the justification is non-existent.

Oh, the payback in political support is demonstrable.

Link the current east-west subway terminus at Kennedy Station to the Scarborough Town Centre, and enough Scarborough residents are ecstatic enough to vote for you. It worked for Mitzie Hunter of the provincial Liberals. As a member of a study team, she advocated an LRT for the corridor. Then, reading the political tea leaves as a Liberal candidate, Hunter became a subway convert. And won the riding.

Politicians being politicians, they can’t help themselves when their strategists point out the direct link between public policy and vote buying. But on this scheme, the link weakens with every revelation about its shaky foundations.

Further evidence that, perhaps, Torontonians want a second look comes with a Forum Research poll that shows nearly half the city wants city council to re-examine the project. Nearly one in five respondents don’t know what to think and one-third want the subway.

Some think the downtown relief line demands higher priority. Others want an LRT because it covers more neighbourhoods and costs less. Still others feel the subway runs too closely to the mayor’s SmartTrack line — a multi-billion-dollar project shoe-horned into existing plans and treated as if it’s a fait accompli.

By now, the subway proponents should be comfortably ahead in the public opinion game. The subway extension has $660 million promised in federal money. Premier Wynne sticks by her $1.48-billion contribution. The city has approved a dedicated property tax hike for some 40 years. New mayor John Tory doesn’t want to upset pro-subway councillors and potentially lose their votes on his SmartTrack scheme, so he hides behind the claim that city council has already voted — the train has left the station, he says.

So, why is such a significant cohort of residents uneasy about the project? Why is support falling, not building?

Because approval and survival of the Scarborough subway is based on deception, faulty data, poor analysis, political opportunism and hubris.

The more residents learn about the Scarborough subway, the more they are convinced that the ridership is not there; the line runs where the fewest riders are and where the development potential is restrained; the projected ridership numbers that gave cover to council’s support in 2013 have not been tested, were done hurriedly and may be fictional; more cost-effective and appropriate alternatives exist and have been offered for decades; and other transit proposals now gaining steam (see SmartTrack) will only aggravate the waste.

Worse, citizens realize their city council is not working in the city’s interest. Councillors have voted, and will continue to vote, with the mayor — so long as they feel they can get plum appointments and support for pet projects. These alliances are deaf to reason. Councillors literally put their fingers in their ears and vote — whipped into action, they are, by the mayor’s henchmen.

This condition is not unique to the current John Tory administration.

For decades the TTC urged the politicians to fix and upgrade the Scarborough RT into a modern system. The technology is the same one running well in Vancouver. It’s just that ours has never been upgraded. In 2006, TTC estimated the fix at $360 million.

Instead of acting, the transit commission and council let the RT go to ruin. Instead, Mayor David Miller proposed Transit City — a light rail system. Then Rob Ford (open Rob Ford's policard) bellowed “subways, subways, subways.” Then, cynical politicians mined the idea that anything other than a subway in Scarborough is akin to dismissing borough residents as second-class citizens. And the pro-subway political juggernaut was born.

Truth has punched some cracks into that bedrock doctrine. But it will take something tectonic to crumble the foundations of this ruinous adventure.

In the fall, city council is to decide on the actual route of the subway. That provides an opportunity to reconsider and, maybe, change technology. It won’t happen. The entire weight of the mayor’s office is arrayed to ensure its survival. It’s not that Tory cares about the project; he doesn’t. He’s got a bigger fish to fry.

Tory needs votes to keep on track his transit pet project — SmartTrack. That idea to run trains from Markham, through downtown and out near the airport at a cost of $8-, $9-, $10-billion is entirely untested. But it is the central plank in Tory’s election campaign. It must proceed or the mayor loses credibility.

As such, Tory supports the Scarborough Subway to secure six or so crucial votes of city councillors politically invested to deliver the subway. The alliance is formidable — never mind the wasted billions of taxpayers’ dollars.

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...ts-cracks-in-political-subway-deal-james.html

Royson James usually appears Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. Email:rjames@thestar.ca
 
The mistake has been made and their is too much political will spent on the Scarborough extension. This is a done deal. Let's move on and keep up the pressure to make sure that the DRL gets funded soon.
 
If the Eglinton LRT was built as a western Skytrain extension of the SRT I'd be in favour of an upgrade, but otherwise I don't see a point in upgrading the SRT, which seems to be Royson James' preferred option.

He may not have mentioned it here, but I think Royson James has mentioned connecting the Eglinton line with the SRT before - he even referenced Michael Schabas.
Imagine all the tansit peace and progress we could have had if we had just stuck with the combined Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown (and maybe tried improving on it), instead of jumping between LRT and subway - both of which have big flaws.
 
That would have been ideal but Ford and his decisions have messed things up permanently for Scarborough. That's democracy for you. The people are always right. It's too bad that the people are very gullible and believe populist politicians like Ford and his failed ideology. This is the price Scarborough pays. They voted for candidates in both municipal and provincial elections that supported the subway and not LRT. This is what they will get.

Perhaps Smart Track will just not add any new stops in Scarborough and make the commute faster for Markham residents. This will avoid having Smart Track cannibalize the subway ridership. I fully believe that Tory will push the EA through and council under his command will approve tender and construction. He will be vulnerable to Ford in 2018 if he doesn't and flips to LRT.
 
He may not have mentioned it here, but I think Royson James has mentioned connecting the Eglinton line with the SRT before - he even referenced Michael Schabas.
Imagine all the tansit peace and progress we could have had if we had just stuck with the combined Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown (and maybe tried improving on it), instead of jumping between LRT and subway - both of which have big flaws.

Hindsight is 20/20, and your ignoring what was on the table back in 2010.

The option in 2010 was to build [underground ESCLRT] OR [ECLRT, FWLRT and SELRT]. The latter option built more transit and moved more people for less money. It was and still is the right decision.

If the debate was ESCLRT vs. [ECLRT and SLRT] vs. [ECLRT and SSE], the correct decision is obviously ESCLRT.
 
My ideal scenario would have been upgrading Eglinton Crosstown into a subway, terminating it at Don Mills station in the east and at Pearson Airport in the west (elevated along Richview Corridor).

Then I would have the Scarborough-Malvern LRT routing with an interchange station at Don Mills-Eglinton, and have the SLRT interline with the S-M LRT at Kennedy and heading towards Don Mills.

This way we get high-capacity subway along Eglinton, and a high-frequency LRT in Scarborough, as both LRT spurs would interline and double the frequency along the most important stretch (Don Mills to Kennedy).
 
My ideal scenario would have been upgrading Eglinton Crosstown into a subway, terminating it at Don Mills station in the east and at Pearson Airport in the west (elevated along Richview Corridor).

Then I would have the Scarborough-Malvern LRT routing with an interchange station at Don Mills-Eglinton, and have the SLRT interline with the S-M LRT at Kennedy and heading towards Don Mills.

This way we get high-capacity subway along Eglinton, and a high-frequency LRT in Scarborough, as both LRT spurs would interline and double the frequency along the most important stretch (Don Mills to Kennedy).

When you say "subway" do you mean Toronto's standard subway rolling stock, or something else like a light metro-type rolling stock? I think in my ideal scenario we'd build the Eglinton tunnel as we are (and continue it elevated east of Brentcliffe to Don Mills), rebuild/extend the SRT as was planned, then use a lighter/narrower bodied rolling stock such as Siemen's Inspiro or Alstom's Metropolis. Many manufacturers have modular specs with lots of room for a city's input. The section between Don Mills and Kennedy connecting the two would be elevated, but wouldn't be built right yet. A hard promise would be given to start construction w/in 10-15 years (once proper development starts).

But in my real ideal scenario, I'd say a DRL should've gone well before anything was built on Eglinton.
 

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