Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[gweed123]

When evidence is presented later this year that there is not nearly enough ridership for both the subway extension and SmartTrack, something has got to give. And it is not going to be SmartTrack.

This is faaaaaar from over.

Agreed. Tory has far more political capital invested in SmartTrack than in the SSE, and the Province is working on ways to integrate SmartTrack with their GO RER plan, which is their 'signature' plan from the last election. It will become even clearer that there isn't enough ridership for both SmartTrack and the SSE to be effective, so one will go.

 

[coffey1]

Agreed. Tory has far more political capital invested in SmartTrack than in the SSE, and the Province is working on ways to integrate SmartTrack with their GO RER plan, which is their 'signature' plan from the last election. It will become even clearer that there isn't enough ridership for both SmartTrack and the SSE to be effective, so one will go.

Yes if that happens a Ford will likely run away with the next election next term to slap Tory for the mess he made by complicating things with Smarttrack. I agree it not over & its not pretty but I think Tory is fully aware of the ramification of cancelling the SSE at this point. If anything my guess is Smarttrack will likely be cut short & GO RER will continue as planned in the East.

But who knows for sure in this circus of transit planning

 

[ssiguy2]

The election was basically fought around transit with 3 very distinct plans............Ford's no plan, Chow's just add buses, and Tory's Smart Track. Guess who won?

Tory has a mandate to build Smart Track and council would be ill advised to cancel it. Yes it can piggy back onto GO RER but what made it popular is that it made sense to use existing infrastructure and it would be basically a GO RER service but with TTC fares.

Torontonians don't care what it's called............surface subway, S-Bahn , RER Plus, but want it as a standard TTC service with standard TTC fares as Tory promised.

 

[coffey1]

The election was basically fought around transit with 3 very distinct plans............Ford's no plan, Chow's just add buses, and Tory's Smart Track. Guess who won?

Tory has a mandate to build Smart Track and council would be ill advised to cancel it. Yes it can piggy back onto GO RER but what made it popular is that it made sense to use existing infrastructure and it would be basically a GO RER service but with TTC fares.

Torontonians don't care what it's called............surface subway, S-Bahn , RER Plus, but want it as a standard TTC service with standard TTC fares as Tory promised.

Actually Ford (Doug) was pro DRL & SSE. Which there is obviously no money in place for the DRL but it would have put heavier pressure on other politicians & other levels to pay attention.

Tory won a close battle because he had not only a surface "subway" idea he also promised to keep the SSE on track ( it helped there was fear of the Fords circus) Chow basically stuck to the underfunded, poorly integrated LRT script that had no hope in the isolated suburbs & only resonated with some of the Metro Torontonians.

If Tory's ever walks away from the SSE its political suicide. Things have dragged on too long to likely even consider improving the initial LRT plan which could have possible been accomplished early with the new funding available for the SSE. If Tory flops on the SSE it would be far more likely Tory loses the majority of his Scarborough support to Ford & it will be an easy walk to victory for the Fords.

The best outcome for him and all of Toronto is to scale back Smarttrack build the SSE and keep moving to build the DRL & we can then start the discussion of future lines & continually improve service levels.

Im of the view that if the SSE falls of the track things are going to get much worse Politically for everyone in this City. I want to see the City move forward at this point and fight for funding instead of debating between narrow minded plans.

 

[WislaHD]

Tory doesn't have to flop on SSE. He could simply just allow Council to kill it despite his "support".

If Tory was that worried about the Fords, he can strongarm Council to adopt ranked ballots.

 

[andrewpmk]

This whole Scarborough subway controversy is pointless. Clearly the subway is better because it doesn't require transferring at Kennedy. If we actually funded our transit system properly then there wouldn't be any opposition to subways. Toronto has got to to be the only major city in the world where people who are against building subways are taken seriously.

 

[torontologist]

Agreed. Tory has far more political capital invested in SmartTrack than in the SSE, and the Province is working on ways to integrate SmartTrack with their GO RER plan, which is their 'signature' plan from the last election. It will become even clearer that there isn't enough ridership for both SmartTrack and the SSE to be effective, so one will go.

I would not be surprised if we see Tory and/or the province proposing a Scarborough Spur to be added to SmartTrack/RER, and using that as an excuse to let council torpedo the subway.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Uh, the councillors? And they have pretty much spoken on this issue. There is really nothing to be gained by reopening this yet again and looking like a sick joke.

AoD

is it mean or do they think they are experts in everything just because they got elected?

 

[coffey1]

I would not be surprised if we see Tory and/or the province proposing a Scarborough Spur to be added to SmartTrack/RER, and using that as an excuse to let council torpedo the subway.

That's another 5-10 years of planning plus additional years of political debating. Likely wont happen as RT is also on its last legs. If the left side of council creates another vote and it ends up being within a couple votes in their favor do you really think that's a victory? It only prolongs the debate. There are always other options & always will be. What do we want to do debate another 50 years?

Lets start building together and stop this nonsense of doing nothing. The LRT boat has sailed. it was poorly integrated & poorly funded (as a useful local network) at the time of implementation. The Smarttrack Spur is a mystery in itself and requires many new studies just to prove its even worth while exploring.

This is past ridiculous. We can keep pulling new options out forever to try to stop a Subway extension that will be extremely useful. Or we can just move and and focus on other projects that are needed in this City without pitting one against the other.

 

[torontologist]

This is past ridiculous. We can keep pulling new options out forever to try to stop a Subway extension that will be extremely useful. Or we can just move and and focus on other projects that are needed in this City without pitting one against the other.

It's not "extremely useful" if its ridership is entirely cannibalized by GO RER/SmartTrack. The numbers are not good to begin with, and if RER/ST go ahead, it will be less used than most major streetcar lines. Then we will be stuck with a massively underused length of subway that the taxpayer will have to subsidize. It will suck up funding that could be put to much better use, and then we are put on the line to pay for its operation into eternity because it can't recoup very much in fares.

We need transit that will A. Get people into downtown faster (which RER/SmartTrack will do a much better job of than a subway extension) and B. Create a better Scarborough for those who live there: more shops and better neighbourhoods for pedestrians (which an LRT would do a much better job of than a subway)

 

[GenerationW]

Remind me again who runs the City of Toronto?

Seeing as how Premier Wynne is clearly all-in for a B-D extension, then, regarding this issue, the province of Ontario has the hammer. Notice that she has totally dropped "accepting the will of council" when talking about an RT replacement.

I'll put my money on Wynne if any credible opposition forms at City Hall.

 

[coffey1]

LRT

It's not "extremely useful" if its ridership is entirely cannibalized by GO RER/SmartTrack. The numbers are not good to begin with, and if RER/ST go ahead, it will be less used than most major streetcar lines. Then we will be stuck with a massively underused length of subway that the taxpayer will have to subsidize. It will suck up funding that could be put to much better use, and then we are put on the line to pay for its operation into eternity because it can't recoup very much in fares.

We need transit that will A. Get people into downtown faster (which RER/SmartTrack will do a much better job of than a subway extension) and B. Create a better Scarborough for those who live there: more shops and better neighbourhoods for pedestrians (which an LRT would do a much better job of than a subway)

If we are going to even consider the SLRT ever again then we need to:

A: Remove the existing Subway on Sheppard and connect LRT to Yonge as this is basically creating a major class divide (at any cost). It is also a deterrent to for anyone to travel East unless they have too. Transit class warfare at its finest. From Kennedy to the west this head scratcher line causes more of an inconvenience of extra transfers going in the same direction & really only shows strong benefit those riders from Neilson to Morningside

B: Fund the whole Transit City including the SMLRT so there is an actual USEFUL LOCAL network for the majority of Scarborough. We don't need to leave out a massive chuck of Built up "Priority neighborhood" Scarborough (Galloway, Kingston/Markham, Kingston/Eglinton) & make this areas a 3rd class Toronto transit citizen.

But if you are comparing the SLRT to the SSE there no comparison for us. No transfer, more central, more efficient stop locations for the MAJORITY as it cuts down on the majority of bus commutes, & just as important for ridership & business it does not isolate Scarborough as a second rate area of the City

Many people on the outside truly fail to see why this "funded" LRT is really not close to as good as it was being sold.

 

[gweed123]

I would not be surprised if we see Tory and/or the province proposing a Scarborough Spur to be added to SmartTrack/RER, and using that as an excuse to let council torpedo the subway.

That's my hope! Time will tell, because I'm sure this debate is far from over.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Torstar continues their unrelenting assault on the people of Scarborough: http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...ts-cracks-in-political-subway-deal-james.html

 

[dowlingm]

Tory promised ST in eight years. Did he make any commitments re Scarborough subway delivery?