Eug
Senior Member
You had sympathy for them in the first place?
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City Workers Strike 2009
- Thread starter gei
- Start date
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
Well, some level of support would probably be a better description. You'd have to go back a dozen or so pages here to get my opinion but basically I believe in a fair living wage, safe working conditions and good benefits. That's not to say that I agree with everything the union is demanding here.
nfitz
Superstar
They'd never get a conviction for tossing a garbage bag full of waste, into a MOE-licensed temporary facility, on top of a pile of garbage bags. How can it be illegal dumping. Shame the good-for-nothing police actually didn't do something useful, rather than simply trying to protect their union brethren.
simuls
Senior Member
I agree with a fair living wage, but that's a legislative issue not a city/union problem. From my own experience, $15/hour would be a living wage for a single person in Toronto with no kids and these people are getting a lot more for work that in the market is paid much less. I belong to a union myself, but it's a highly skilled and specialized one, whereas many of these strikers are manual labourers with small skillsets. I'm sorry, but I just don't think that anyone who doesn't invest in themselves and their education doesn't deserve more than a basic living wage. Personally I think Miller should do 2 things - roll back all the Cost of Living and pay increases the council and all the other unions got (if that's legal), and 2) put it to the citizens of Toronto in as frank a manner as possible - do you want a tax increase to pay for these unions increases (all of them) - yes/no. I think we know what the answer would be. End of discussion and the union scurries back to the table with its tail between its legs and says yes to this most recent deal.
dpylyp
Active Member
Unskilled Strikers
Does that also apply to ALL the inside workers that are part of the court system?
The Paramedics?
OUCH
Does that also apply to ALL the inside workers that are part of the court system?
The Paramedics?
OUCH
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
How does one live in this city on $34K gross a year? Take off approx. 28% for Fed. tax/CPP & EI = $25K. Factor in rent, hydro, phone, cable, insurance and that doesn't leave an awful lot to live on.
afransen
Senior Member
That's a pretty asshat hack job. You deliberately took the statement out of context. He clearly said 'many' and not 'all' immediately before the comment you quote.
cdr108
Senior Member
I believe the discussion, for the most part, was about garbage collectors.
what inside workers that are part of the court system do you refer to?
is there a private equivalent; and how much are the public vs. private individuals paid?
paramedics have skills and are trained, licensed, and deal with life/death situations. ironically, on the first week of the strike, there was an accident around the corner where i lived, and it took the paramedics 20 minutes to get to there.
some poor kid wiped out while riding his bicycle; could have suffered a concussion; had internal bleeding, etc ... i find the delay totally unacceptable.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
In defense, about a week & a half ago I got a large calcium pill lodged in my throat somewhere around the top of my windpipe or voicebox, it wouldn't go down with tons of water and I couldn't hack it up. My roommate called 911 and he later said that EMS arrived in exactly 5 minutes after he made the call around 2am. I could hear the siren outside as they approached within about 2-3 minutes of the call.
adma
Superstar
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Toronto mayor too slow in garbage strike: Lastman
Mayor David Miller should have gone to court weeks ago to bar striking garbage workers from blocking residents at trash transfer stations, says former mayor Mel Lastman.
"I think the way we're treating the citizens of Toronto is disgraceful," he told CTV News Channel Monday evening.
Residents have been growing increasingly frustrated with lengthy wait times at Toronto waste transfer stations.
For example, the lineup at the Ingram transfer station Monday was about three hours long as only one car was allowed in at a time every 15 minutes. At another transfer site, people complained of five-hour wait times.
Once a driver is allowed into the site, they are only permitted to throw out three bags of garbage. Bylaw officers were on hand to ticket anyone found dumping their trash before their turn had arrived.
But Lastman said that's unacceptable in the eyes of the law -- something Miller should have taken into account when the strike began 22 days ago.
"The law says one minute and that's all they can do," Lastman said, referring to the amount of time picketers can legally delay residents.
"To have anybody wait in line for four hours and tell them they can only drop three bags of garbage is disgusting."
Labour lawyer Howard Levitt told CTV Toronto that strikers can only legally hold people long enough to hand out a leaflet and explain their position.
"(Mayor David Miller) can get an injunction to stop this, it is totally illegal," he said. "They are allowed to stop people for a second to give them information, that is what the law requires."
Miller agreed lengthy delays are against the law but the city has not yet sought an injunction against picketers holding people for hours at a time. He said he expects striking workers to be reasonable on the picket lines.
More.....http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090713/toronto_strike_090713/20090713?hub=Toronto
Mayor David Miller should have gone to court weeks ago to bar striking garbage workers from blocking residents at trash transfer stations, says former mayor Mel Lastman.
"I think the way we're treating the citizens of Toronto is disgraceful," he told CTV News Channel Monday evening.
Residents have been growing increasingly frustrated with lengthy wait times at Toronto waste transfer stations.
For example, the lineup at the Ingram transfer station Monday was about three hours long as only one car was allowed in at a time every 15 minutes. At another transfer site, people complained of five-hour wait times.
Once a driver is allowed into the site, they are only permitted to throw out three bags of garbage. Bylaw officers were on hand to ticket anyone found dumping their trash before their turn had arrived.
But Lastman said that's unacceptable in the eyes of the law -- something Miller should have taken into account when the strike began 22 days ago.
"The law says one minute and that's all they can do," Lastman said, referring to the amount of time picketers can legally delay residents.
"To have anybody wait in line for four hours and tell them they can only drop three bags of garbage is disgusting."
Labour lawyer Howard Levitt told CTV Toronto that strikers can only legally hold people long enough to hand out a leaflet and explain their position.
"(Mayor David Miller) can get an injunction to stop this, it is totally illegal," he said. "They are allowed to stop people for a second to give them information, that is what the law requires."
Miller agreed lengthy delays are against the law but the city has not yet sought an injunction against picketers holding people for hours at a time. He said he expects striking workers to be reasonable on the picket lines.
More.....http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090713/toronto_strike_090713/20090713?hub=Toronto
Eug
Senior Member
So, where do we draw the line?
Maybe we should pay maids in Rosedale three times as much so they can rent a place in Rosedale?
Or maybe we should pay them less, because they could live on a lesser wage in some of the crappier areas of Toronto. Oh and since when is cable a necessity? I lived for several years without cable in Toronto. Even a phone isn't an absolute necessity IMO, even in 2009. At most, one could argue a pay-as-you-go cell phone is a necessity. Beyond that, it's a luxury item for many people.
Should we pay Tim Hortons coffee jockeys $40000 a year because $34000 (which is much more than they get) isn't a "living wage" by your definition?
Since it went over your head...
I hate people who overgeneralize. They are all bloody the same!
Jonny5
Senior Member
Using the CRA website's payroll calculator, someone earning $34,000 gross will receive $27,136.72 net.
No. It doesn't leave a lot left for weekly shopping trips to Yorkville, a Carribean vacation in the winter and 3 or 4 nights a week eating out and bars on the weekend. It leaves more than enough to live comfortably though.
When I first came to Toronto, fresh out of school just over four years ago, I made $30,000. Given inflation, that works out to $32,250 in today's dollars.
I had all the things you mentioned, plus a new (as in brand new) car. I made it just fine. Just don't spend outrageously.
The biggest disconnect I find people have is on rent. Options like shared accomodation let you cut back that cost to as little as $650/month, while still living downtown and in a building that is not a total dive.
simuls
Senior Member
Jonny5 has it right - and I'll tell you how you can do it (as a single person) AND have vacations and decent shopping.
Rent $500: Shared accommodation - includes nice furnished room, internet, cable, all utilities, nice kitchen, etc. I have found this to be a reasonable price and have lived in great places from Cabbagetown, to Lippincott/Harbord, across from Trinity/Bellwoods, etc. - all great and only a single roommate each time with no problems.
Phone: Cell - $55 month - 250 anytime minutes, unlimited nights/wknd starting at 5pm to 8am, unlimited long distance in canada, enhanced voicemail, unlimited downloads, 125 txts/month, 125 video txts, etc.
Insurance: $18/month, group life - $250 000.
Transportation: $80/month for combination of tokens and cabs. Walk and bike everywhere else.
Food: Regular budget - $15/day - easily done = $450/month
Total: $1103/month = $13 236/year
$27,136.72-13326 = $13810.72 left over - that's a lot of money for clothes, eating out less frugally, drinking, going to the Drake or Yorkville AND taking 2-3 vacations a year or saving a hefty chunk of dough.
Regardless of how much I hate banks, Scotiabank has it right when they say that most people "don't know how rich they are!".
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dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
I never said cable or phone are necessities, I noted common expenses that most people have, not including Internet access which is arguably less common.
As I stated already, I do not believe that entry level jobs should pay much more than minimum wage, these are not career jobs, they are typically jobs that attract students, first time employees, seniors looking to supplement their pension and those who take a second or third job to earn extra money. But therein lies a problem, more and more jobs are becoming entry level type jobs as so many of our good paying jobs have been, and are continuing to be farmed out overseas or lost entirely because we don't manufacture as much in this country as we used to eliminating an entire chain of decent paying jobs. That's a whole other debate, but one which worries me.
I get 17K net per year, what am I doing wrong?
OK, in that example then you've made the case that $34K is a living wage.