City fatigue?

[ehlow]

Even if you love the city, sometimes you should go out into the country. Go fishing, camping, hiking, etc. It's good to escape the city once in a while. As soon as you cross Ninth Line, it is a very different feeling. It is good to experience it once in a while.

I agree, when I lived in a smaller city in Ontario, it was nice to be able to easily drive or bike into the farmland & countryside. The small towns around Ontario can be nice as well. Nowadays because of how huge Toronto, driving in any direction takes a while before you hit farmland or wilderness.

And there are beautiful places outside Toronto in Ontario, Bruce Peninsula, Muskoka, Niagara region, waterfalls around Hamilton etc.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I agree, when I lived in a smaller city in Ontario, it was nice to be able to easily drive or bike into the farmland & countryside. The small towns around Ontario can be nice as well. Nowadays because of how huge Toronto, driving in any direction takes a while before you hit farmland or wilderness.

And there are beautiful places outside Toronto in Ontario, Bruce Peninsula, Muskoka, Niagara region, waterfalls around Hamilton etc.

It doesn't take that long. Drive 40 minutes Jane Street north from Bloor and you'll end up in farmland

 

[amjwesternontario]

Hi there,

As someone in my 30s I can see what you mean by city fatigue. I grew up in Winnipeg--lived in Montreal and Europe, so I can see both sides. I do get tired from the daily commuting, the regular TTC delays during rush hour and even the crowds at times--all part of the city grind.

Over time I know I'll frequent downtown less, and prefer quieter places with more green space. But it's about finding that balance between both which is key, regardless if you are a city type or coming from the suburbs.

-AMJ
http://amjwesternontario.com/

 

[Lenser]

That's exactly how I felt when I came to Toronto. So much quieter, no long lines at banks, you get a seat in subways/buses, and everything is much slower. I still never understand why people complain about "noise, crowdedness and pollution" in Toronto. I don't think Toronto has too much of any of this. Even the Eaton centre/Dundas Sq during its most crowded time is really not a big deal compared with what I used to see on major streets back home. I actually wish there are two or three Dundas sq kind of crowded public space downtown.

Three years ago an old friend visited me, and was a bit surprise to find "Toronto is a mid-sized city" because he thought it would be a much denser city. To me, Toronto is a good sized city, not too big, not too small. Downtown could bit a bit denser and it is quickly happening.

City fatigue? You will know it when you step into a bank to make a transaction, and have to take a ticket from a machine which tells you there are 85 customers ahead of you.

But since it's all relative, your own experience has zero bearing on someone who comes from, say, St. Catherines and has to adjust to the size and pace of a city like Toronto. Such experiences are all degrees on a sliding scale. You can claim for yourself that Toronto is mid-sized and not quite dense enough, but you can't claim that status and reasonably expect others to agree with you as if it were an absolute decree.

 

[CityPainter]

I think you need to make or find your own peace regardless of where you live. Rural and suburban areas are no guarantee of freedom from annoying or obnoxious neighbours or bad drivers.

My wife and I live right downtown but we've cultivated a pretty peaceful existence within the city. We live on a quieter street that has a large park, a few blocks away from the main streets and the streetcars. There are enough job options nearby that we've both managed to be able to walk to work or telecommute for years, so rush hours are not a big deal. We walk to buy all our necessities, and we shop at a lot of small places where they know and recognize us. When we're in the mood, we can hop on the streetcar or subway, or visit the Eaton Centre, go to a street festival or hit the hipster bar scenes in the west end: but these things are on our own terms, and if we're not up for the chaotic parts of the city, we avoid them.

I think the first mistake some people make when they move to the big city they don't research enough: they buy a condo that's right on top of the "exciting" bars and restaurants that lured them on their first visits. But these are not always the best spots to live, even a regular bar-goer is going to get tired of hearing drunks whooping outside at 3 am every night of the week, and even the most avid shopper might become frustrated in a condo overlooking the Eaton Centre.

Another mistake that I think burns people out is trying to live a suburban lifestyle in the city: I call it "one foot it, one foot out". That is, if you try to live in a downtown highrise condo but insist on having a car for each adult in the family, and try to drive and park every time you go out, then you're going to find city life very expensive and stressful. Similarly, if you try to live in the suburbs without a car, you'll find life unpleasant. I think the key is to realistically match your lifestyle to your surroundings.

 

[NorthYorkEd]

For me, as an introvert, the sheer number of people can sometimes be stressful. I can't even go to the Taste of the Danforth anymore because the last time we went, we couldn't move, couldn't see much, and couldn't truly enjoy it. I don't mind a crowd, as long as I can move and easily breathe. But if the crowd is too thick, I will just try to avoid it.

Another coping mechanism I've found necessary is selective filtering. For example, last Saturday my wife and I went to the Blue Jays game. On the way to the gate there was a family ahead of us, and the father casually placed his empty Starbucks cup on the ledge of the stairs leading up from John St and keep walking. A few moments later, one of his teenage daughters (who did not see her father litter, by the way), placed her empty drink cup on a bench. There are garbage receptacles all around, but these two could not even be bothered. At least she came by her asshollery honestly.

Then, after the game, about 4-5 young girls around 19-22 were walking towards the aisle and one crushed her empty beer can and dropped it on the ground, like a rapper dropping the mic. Her friends all thought this was hilarious. There are plenty of receptacles for the cans, but again, carrying an empty is just too much effort for certain dumb people.

You want to say something, but I don't find confronting these types of people to be worth the aggravation. They are too dumb to understand, and you don't know how things might escalate. So you have to filter it out. If you let all the small aggravations get to you, you will burn out very, very quickly. From smokers tossing their butts like the entire world is their personal ashtray, to doors slamming in your face, to sidewalk spitters (and nose-blowers ), much of the general ignorance and idiocy we witness on a daily basis has to be filtered out.

 

[ehlow]

Not to mention people asking for money or selling you products on the streets, or random fights or weird incidents on public transit.

Taste of Danforth is way too crowded for most people I think.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

For me, as an introvert, the sheer number of people can sometimes be stressful. I can't even go to the Taste of the Danforth anymore because the last time we went, we couldn't move, couldn't see much, and couldn't truly enjoy it. I don't mind a crowd, as long as I can move and easily breathe. But if the crowd is too thick, I will just try to avoid it.

I think that's more of a NorthYorkEd thing than an introvert thing. Many of my friends are heavily introverted and they love dragging me to Taste of the Danforth, Ex, Buskerfest and other large gatherings of peoples.

According to my MBTI, I'm [apparently] an introvert and I love large crowds of people and the activity that comes along with it. It makes the city feel more lively.

Then, after the game, about 4-5 young girls around 19-22 were walking towards the aisle and one crushed her empty beer can and dropped it on the ground, like a rapper dropping the mic. Her friends all thought this was hilarious. There are plenty of receptacles for the cans, but again, carrying an empty is just too much effort for certain dumb people.

You want to say something, but I don't find confronting these types of people to be worth the aggravation. They are too dumb to understand, and you don't know how things might escalate. So you have to filter it out. If you let all the small aggravations get to you, you will burn out very, very quickly. From smokers tossing their butts like the entire world is their personal ashtray, to doors slamming in your face, to sidewalk spitters (and nose-blowers ), much of the general ignorance and idiocy we witness on a daily basis has to be filtered out.

I've confronted people about littering on the subway a few times. Littering is wrong and that's how you start fires at track level, delaying subway service for everyone.

Not to mention people asking for money or selling you products on the streets, or random fights or weird incidents on public transit.

The Yonge-Dundas Trapezoid is the worst for people selling things. During Buskerfest I had one of them swearing at me because I wouldn't take one of his flyers. The City really needs to do something to get rid of them.

As for random fights or weird incidents on public transit, these events are very, very, very rare for me.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's exactly how I felt when I came to Toronto. So much quieter, no long lines at banks, you get a seat in subways/buses, and everything is much slower.

One thing that really bothers me about Torontonians is that the people here seem to take their time to do everything. Everything is done at a ridiculously relaxed pace.

For example:

-Pedestrians crossing the street when the light is about to change. Do they hurry? Nope. They take their time casually strolling across the street
-When walking in a mall it or on a sidewalk seems like everyone is walking at a snails pace. If the mall is crowded, good luck getting anywhere fast
-People take their time loading onto public transit vehicles. I think the TTC needs to hire some pushers with broomsticks to hurry people on the trains

Toronto is a city of slowpokes.

Even the Eaton centre/Dundas Sq during its most crowded time is really not a big deal compared with what I used to see on major streets back home. I actually wish there are two or three Dundas sq kind of crowded public space downtown.

I wish some of our downtown streets were more crowded like what we see at Taste of the Danforth. I really do like the vibe the crowds give the city. It's one of the reasons I want Yonge to be turned into a pedestrian mall.

Three years ago an old friend visited me, and was a bit surprise to find "Toronto is a mid-sized city" because he thought it would be a much denser city. To me, Toronto is a good sized city, not too big, not too small. Downtown could bit a bit denser and it is quickly happening.

Yeah the downtown core (tall buildings and all) is absolutely tiny. I'm glad that we're finally having sustained high-rise development. This city will be unrecognizable in another 20 or 30 years.

City fatigue? You will know it when you step into a bank to make a transaction, and have to take a ticket from a machine which tells you there are 85 customers ahead of you.

 

[ehlow]

One thing that really bothers me about Torontonians is that the people here seem to take their time to do everything. Everything is done at a ridiculously relaxed pace.

For example:

-Pedestrians crossing the street when the light is about to change. Do they hurry? Nope. They take their time casually strolling across the street
-When walking in a mall it or on a sidewalk seems like everyone is walking at a snails pace. If the mall is crowded, good luck getting anywhere fast
-People take their time loading onto public transit vehicles. I think the TTC needs to hire some pushers with broomsticks to hurry people on the trains

Toronto is a city of slowpokes.

Yeah I weave around them. It's bad when you want to get on the subway but people are blocking you walking super slowly lol.

I wish some of our downtown streets were more crowded like what we see at Taste of the Danforth. I really do like the vibe the crowds give the city. It's one of the reasons I want Yonge to be turned into a pedestrian mall.

I like vibrant and crowded, but not so crowded that you can't walk in any direction, which usually only happens at very popular events like Danforth or Beaches Jazz streetfest.

A normal day at Yonge-Eg or Yonge-Dundas or Queen-Spadina is a good level to me.

 

[NorthYorkEd]

I think that's more of a NorthYorkEd thing than an introvert thing. Many of my friends are heavily introverted and they love dragging me to Taste of the Danforth, Ex, Buskerfest and other large gatherings of peoples. According to my MBTI, I'm [apparently] an introvert and I love large crowds of people and the activity that comes along with it. It makes the city feel more lively.

Agree. I also enjoy crowds and a lively area. But I don't like being literally shoulder-to-shoulder with strangers for extended periods of time. There is busy, and then there is jam-packed. If I can't move, I'm not having a good time.

I've confronted people about littering on the subway a few times. Littering is wrong and that's how you start fires at track level, delaying subway service for everyone.

As much as I want to call people out, I am not a confrontational person by nature nor do I like drawing attention. I've also seen situations escalate and you really don't know who you are dealing with. Sometimes you just have to let it go and roll off. If I have to instruct someone (especially an adult) to take their garbage to a receptacle, or clear their tray off the table, or act with a bit of consideration for others around them, then that person has already failed the test. They are a waste of time and not worth the effort. As much as I would like to explain to them how they are being dicks, it would be as futile as explaining calculus to a three year-old.

 

[Eug]

I moved to downtown Toronto in the early 90s. First it was in an apartment, and then it was in a townhouse condo.

By the mid 2000s, I was itching to leave. I wanted more room, and I had city fatigue as well. So yeah, I can totally relate.

In 2007 I moved to Scarborough, so still in the City of Toronto, not the true (905) 'burbs, but in a much quieter neighbourhood than anywhere downtown. Lots of space too, both for the house, and the lot. The first thing I told my real estate agent upon visiting the home before purchase was that for the first time in over a decade, I could actually hear birds singing outside. Yes, the difference was that dramatic. I was sold.

However, I made it a point to be no more than 30 minutes from either downtown or my workplace (which isn't downtown) by car. While downtown fatigues me, it's still a very nice place to visit. And I do visit often.

One thing I do note though is the traffic has gotten exponentially worse since I moved out of downtown, and it's only been 7 years since I've moved out of downtown. I guess it's all the traffic generated by all the new condo residents which weren't there when I lived downtown. (Yes, I drove when I lived downtown, because I didn't work downtown. I worked mid-town, but not on a subway line.) I've also noticed a lot more dog crap in parks and on sidewalks than they're used to be. Walking around Liberty Village in spring is a poo minefield. Totally disgusting.

Now that I have a kid, I definitely expect to stay here for the long haul, probably until we retire. However, I could see myself moving back into a condo after retirement, and the kids are out of the house. However, my wife, who also owned a condo downtown, wants to retire in this house.

 

[gabe]

You could always buy or rent a cottage to get away from the city. Do some hiking and fishing. I did the math many years ago which is why I don't have a cottage. I rent and leave all the stress and expense to someone else.

My uncle had a beautiful cottage in the Kingston area right on the water. i used it one week during the summer and a week during the fall. Unfortunately my uncle sold the cottage on the spot and took an early retirement, when some rich guy from Toronto pulled up his driveway in a fancy car, asking if he could buy the cottage, because he wanted a place where he could land his float plane.

 

[Videodrome]

We typically go to the cottage two weeks a year, once in the summer and once in the spring. We have also gone in the fall and winter as well. It is great for the kids.

 

[ehlow]

I moved to downtown Toronto in the early 90s. First it was in an apartment, and then it was in a townhouse condo.

By the mid 2000s, I was itching to leave. I wanted more room, and I had city fatigue as well. So yeah, I can totally relate.

In 2007 I moved to Scarborough, so still in the City of Toronto, not the true (905) 'burbs, but in a much quieter neighbourhood than anywhere downtown. Lots of space too, both for the house, and the lot. The first thing I told my real estate agent upon visiting the home before purchase was that for the first time in over a decade, I could actually hear birds singing outside. Yes, the difference was that dramatic. I was sold.

However, I made it a point to be no more than 30 minutes from either downtown or my workplace (which isn't downtown) by car. While downtown fatigues me, it's still a very nice place to visit. And I do visit often.

One thing I do note though is the traffic has gotten exponentially worse since I moved out of downtown, and it's only been 7 years since I've moved out of downtown. I guess it's all the traffic generated by all the new condo residents which weren't there when I lived downtown. (Yes, I drove when I lived downtown, because I didn't work downtown. I worked mid-town, but not on a subway line.) I've also noticed a lot more dog crap in parks and on sidewalks than they're used to be. Walking around Liberty Village in spring is a poo minefield. Totally disgusting.

Now that I have a kid, I definitely expect to stay here for the long haul, probably until we retire. However, I could see myself moving back into a condo after retirement, and the kids are out of the house. However, my wife, who also owned a condo downtown, wants to retire in this house.

In terms of finding a place that's quieter, near nature/parks and also being able to travel or drive downtown, why choose Scarborough over places that are closer but still pretty quiet like: East York/Danforth, St Clair West, Bloor West/High Park, Leaside, etc? Just curious. 7 years ago many of those places were probably much cheaper than they are today.