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Canadian airline industry (general discussion)

gabe said:
The loss of these discount airlines Canada will once again return to having the highest airfares in the world. :mad:

I flew Swoop a few months back to Vancouver. It wasn't that bad. Had that public transit feel but it was only a 5 hour flight and only $200 there and back. West Jet, Air Canada were charging over $700 for the same flight! No way i would pay that to fly on such a short flight.
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Nah, Swoop dying is a good thing. It was a red herring.

Swoop, like Air Canada's Zip airlines answer to WestJet in the 2000s, was nothing more than an attempt to undercut airlines like Flair and Lynx coming into fruition.

Armed with deep pockets by Westjet, its purpose was to find out what first Flair and then Lynx were charging for airfare, and offer something just a bit lower. Losing money, but attempting to kill any chance of these Ultra Low Cost Airlines from taking hold in Canada.

Swoops death is a good thing. it muzzles their attempt to stop ULCC's. Let Flair and Lynx flourish now and be actual competition.
 
Bordercollie said:
The question you should be asking is why would the regulatory authority allow this?
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I think the CTA's primary concern here would be diminishment of competition, particularly on scheduled service; although having said that, maintenance of competition is not set out on their website. Was Sunwing really competing with any other airline?

Mercenary said:
Its so bizarre that it is cheaper to fly from Toronto to Europe than flying from Toronto to Calgary or Vancouver.
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It's no where near what it used to be. Back in the late 1970s, it would cost me close to $1000 (return) Dryden to Toronto.
 
Mercenary said:
Its so bizarre that it is cheaper to fly from Toronto to Europe than flying from Toronto to Calgary or Vancouver.
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couple of points:

at some point there may be some merit in exploring minimum air pricing for destination pairs which can be reached by land, for climate response purposes. This would result in fury from the established airlines and there would need to be carve outs for northern communities etc,, and doubtless there would be some performative behaviour such as deliberately booking Vancouver-Victoria-Toronto in order to write articles on “how to beat the bureaucrats‘ silly rules”, so would take some smart thinkers indeed to begin such a process, and starting more like France’s rules around air competing with short rail trips.

in terms of competition, one would think it obvious at this point that the way Canadian aviation is structured is both favourable to incumbents but also prone to political whims such as the Quebec attachment to Transat or the existence of the ACPPA. In some ways it’s amazing that anyone even tries to incept a new carrier in this country. Perhaps there may need to be a sort of nursery process where a new entrant (operating two? years or less) can agree a route price with the CTA equivalent to the prevailing fares prior to the process, below which no other carrier may price a fare over the same route until the nursery status is lifted, to provide even a meagre shield against predation.
 
dowlingm said:
couple of points:

at some point there may be some merit in exploring minimum air pricing for destination pairs which can be reached by land, for climate response purposes. This would result in fury from the established airlines and there would need to be carve outs for northern communities etc,, and doubtless there would be some performative behaviour such as deliberately booking Vancouver-Victoria-Toronto in order to write articles on “how to beat the bureaucrats‘ silly rules”, so would take some smart thinkers indeed to begin such a process, and starting more like France’s rules around air competing with short rail trips.
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France can do that because their rail system is excellent. Nobody would call today's VIA "excellent", and it still won't be excellent for YVR-YYZ in a hundred years.

Flights are a necessary evil in a country the size of Canada, though various versions of rail should be used to reduce the need for shorter flights (YYC/YEG, YYZ/YUL/YOW, etc.)
dowlingm said:
In terms of competition, one would think it obvious at this point that the way Canadian aviation is structured is both favourable to incumbents but also prone to political whims such as the Quebec attachment to Transat or the existence of the ACPPA. In some ways it’s amazing that anyone even tries to incept a new carrier in this country. Perhaps there may need to be a sort of nursery process where a new entrant (operating two? years or less) can agree a route price with the CTA equivalent to the prevailing fares prior to the process, below which no other carrier may price a fare over the same route until the nursery status is lifted, to provide even a meagre shield against predation.
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This country has a love affair with oligarchies, I don't know why.

As for your idea, it could work, but Air Canada/Westjet lobbying would kill it. It would also mean airline regulation, which the Conservatives would never agree to.
 
Bureaucromancer said:
I mean so far this hasn’t really been a loss of legitimate discount carriers. This discount brand within a larger airline thing has never worked, and sunwing was very much an international vacation carrier (though I am slightly surprised they aren’t preserving the brand in some form)
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Doesn't mean that Westjet will never offer a discount brand (or discount service offering) ever again.

Sunwing as a brand was badly tainted by poor performance and flight cancellations that stranded people down south.

At this point it doesn't matter who owns it, the brand is a liability. Vacations in the Caribbean aren't going to become unpopular any time soon, and actually I don't see a $100 fare increase decreasing that market either. Westjet isn't perfect but their brand is a known commodity.

I'm very skeptical about $95 long distance air fares - maybe they work in the short term, and the pay-by-item approach has brought the notional fares down, but avgas alone will demand some floor to pricing. As will competition for a limited pool of flight crews.

- Paul
 
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gabe said:
The loss of these discount airlines Canada will once again return to having the highest airfares in the world. :mad:

I flew Swoop a few months back to Vancouver. It wasn't that bad. Had that public transit feel but it was only a 5 hour flight and only $200 there and back. West Jet, Air Canada were charging over $700 for the same flight! No way i would pay that to fly on such a short flight.
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I miss Swoop......


https://twitter.com/x/status/1699120249444954620



dailyhive.com

Woman shares video of shabby conditions onboard Air Canada (VIDEO) | Canada

A passenger took to TikTok to share her experience flying Air Canada and the conditions onboard were less than ideal.
dailyhive.com dailyhive.com
 
gabe said:
That's exactly why I booked Porter for my flight to Vancouver in June. I would have saved a lot of money with Flair, but i don't want to risk it.
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Same. Booked a flight with Porter to Halifax in May. Was seriously considering Lynx when I saw the price.
 
Bojaxs said:
Same. Booked a flight with Porter to Halifax in May. Was seriously considering Lynx when I saw the price.
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If you use the right credit card (or buy comprehensive cancellation insurance), your potential loses due to insolvency are covered. However, you may need to float the cost of a second ticket for some time.
 
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