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Brampton Transit/Zum

Justin10000 said:
Zum is not BRT, or that BRT-lite nonsense. It's just a limited stop service.
Click to expand...

The 501 is certainly more than just a limited stop service. It has dedicated queue jump lanes and buses can and do, hold green lights at many intersections. The 501A uses a long stretch of the usually free-flowing 407.

Both services have large, heated shelters, next bus displays, more comfortable buses meant for longer rides, and new terminals with bus priority entry and exit (once the new Shoppers World terminal is open).

Viva is BRT-lite too. Yes, it has all-door boarding, but does not have queue-jumps and has a horrible central terminal.

The TTC 190, 191 or 199, MT 101, 103, etc, BT 115, YRT Markham expresses are simple express buses.
 
Had my first real ride on the Zum a few weeks ago and it was off peak.

501 travels at a higher speed limit over the 502 for some reason and not sure why the 502 is not doing the post limit.

Ridership on the 502 is at least 3 times or more than the #2 every was north of Shoppers World.

Even the ridership on the 501 between Downtown and the Bramalea terminal is way higher.

Saw a few bus passes riders get transfers to used on MT at SW off a 502.

MT and BT need to look at the schedule timing at SW as its hard to put 2 buses in the same spot with the same departure time.

A number of MT riders with passes, ended up paying an extra fare within Mississauga using the 502 going south.

Ridership was at peak load going south until Eglinton where it fell to off peak loading to Sq One.

The new terminal at Bramalea operates a lot better than the old one.

Overall, BT is pulling ahead of MT at all levels and has made huge steps from where it was 10 years ago.

I see work has finally started on the new terminal at SW.

Never noticed before or wasn't paying attention to see the north section of the mall been rebuilt. That section needed to be rebuilt and no idea what is plan for this mall, since I am very rarely there in the first place.

I like the shelters and they are a lot better than rest of the systems where you have high ridership in the first place.

Until a ROW is built for the 500's, they will only be express buses that are way better than MT or TTC.
 
I have to agree with many of the posters. Living in Brampton for 8 years, the transit system has improved significantly. Newer buses, increased frequency, ZUM, more shelters, minor improvements (such as the 4A, 15A, 1A etc) have all contributed. I remember when I first moved here in 2004, taking the bus was out of the question.

However I noticed that the frequency on the 502 is quite slow, and there is still a problem in connecting to different buses. Buses don't arrive on time and many people often miss their other bus and are forced to wait during off peak hours. I think the drivers should wait 1-2 minutes for the bus to pass the red light and let passengers off. it's not going to kill them.
 
A few things to say about this Zum service..as mentioned before by some others the brampton transit service has greatly improved over the years...I've noticed the biggest change after I moved from Brampton to Vancouver (three years ago). I use the BT and Mississauga busses when I visit my family here quite often.

I had no complaints about the new(er) system until last night when I had to take the Zum to SQ1. I was used to the old system from taking the bus from Shoppers world to sq1 (as i did for many years working in mississauga or when i wanted to go shop at sq1 or visit friends). What I didn't realize was that they don't take Mississauga tickets on the Zum and was met with attitude from the driver :/ I didn't even bother wasting time explaining that I was still adjusting to the changes to a system i used since i started working ....10 years ago lol

What I don't understand (and I'm going to compare the GTA to the VGA for a second) is why there isn't ONE transportation service servicing the GTA? Translink has such an amazing system for the Greater Vancouver area and most of BC, I can use the buses, board the sky train and the sea bus with such ease.

Sorry for necroing this thread but I needed to get that out of my system, i was treated like I never used the transit system in my life; and I'd feel sorry for anyone who got lip the way i did if they really were new to the system.
 
ShonTron said:
The 501 is certainly more than just a limited stop service. It has dedicated queue jump lanes and buses can and do, hold green lights at many intersections. The 501A uses a long stretch of the usually free-flowing 407.

Both services have large, heated shelters, next bus displays, more comfortable buses meant for longer rides, and new terminals with bus priority entry and exit (once the new Shoppers World terminal is open).

Viva is BRT-lite too. Yes, it has all-door boarding, but does not have queue-jumps and has a horrible central terminal.

The TTC 190, 191 or 199, MT 101, 103, etc, BT 115, YRT Markham expresses are simple express buses.
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. Dedicated queue jump lanes, and the ability to hold a green does not make the service rapid. BRT = Bus Rapid Transit, yeah? Buses in mixed traffic regardless of the nice features is NOT rapid transit. And this BRT Lite nonsense? What's next BRT Ultra Lite to describe buses that only have the ability to hold green lights, and decent stops? The terms are getting out of hand.

I'm with Drum, until the service runs in it's own ROW, or even bus lanes, the service cannot be considered BRT.

I used to live in Brampton, and going to my parents is much, much easier with Zum. It's a good service, but it's a stretch to call it BRT.
 
creamsoda said:
A few things to say about this Zum service..as mentioned before by some others the brampton transit service has greatly improved over the years...I've noticed the biggest change after I moved from Brampton to Vancouver (three years ago). I use the BT and Mississauga busses when I visit my family here quite often.

I had no complaints about the new(er) system until last night when I had to take the Zum to SQ1. I was used to the old system from taking the bus from Shoppers world to sq1 (as i did for many years working in mississauga or when i wanted to go shop at sq1 or visit friends). What I didn't realize was that they don't take Mississauga tickets on the Zum and was met with attitude from the driver :/ I didn't even bother wasting time explaining that I was still adjusting to the changes to a system i used since i started working ....10 years ago lol

What I don't understand (and I'm going to compare the GTA to the VGA for a second) is why there isn't ONE transportation service servicing the GTA? Translink has such an amazing system for the Greater Vancouver area and most of BC, I can use the buses, board the sky train and the sea bus with such ease.

Sorry for necroing this thread but I needed to get that out of my system, i was treated like I never used the transit system in my life; and I'd feel sorry for anyone who got lip the way i did if they really were new to the system.
Click to expand...

Presto should hopefully solve some of that, although it's implementation hasn't been lightning quick, let's put it that way. Especially when the Hurontario LRT gets put in, fare integration between MT and BT is going to be essential.
 
gweed123 said:
Presto should hopefully solve some of that, although it's implementation hasn't been lightning quick, let's put it that way. Especially when the Hurontario LRT gets put in, fare integration between MT and BT is going to be essential.
Click to expand...

When it comes to Brampton and Mississauga, PRESTO has solved this issue. The card does not discriminate between which bus you board and which bus you transfer onto. That is the definition of fare integration.
 
Justin10000 said:
Absolutely not. Dedicated queue jump lanes, and the ability to hold a green does not make the service rapid. BRT = Bus Rapid Transit, yeah? Buses in mixed traffic regardless of the nice features is NOT rapid transit. And this BRT Lite nonsense? What's next BRT Ultra Lite to describe buses that only have the ability to hold green lights, and decent stops? The terms are getting out of hand.

I'm with Drum, until the service runs in it's own ROW, or even bus lanes, the service cannot be considered BRT.

I used to live in Brampton, and going to my parents is much, much easier with Zum. It's a good service, but it's a stretch to call it BRT.
Click to expand...

Technically, true rapid transit means grade-separated crossings, in additon to limited stops, all-door boarding, and high frequency. So neither Zum, VIVA, or MiExpress are rapid transit. So there is actually no rapid transit in the 905 currently. And the only rapid transit proposed or under construction in the 905, other than the Spadina Line extension, is the Mississauga Transitway.
 
Does it matter what it is called if it is effective in increasing the adoption rate of public transit? Particularly in an area (suburbs) where we would not normally expect high(er) use of transit.

Whether it is just marketing/perception or actually rapid transit...the facts are, since Zum was introduced in Brampton the rate of growth in ridership has been triple the rate of growth in the city's population. That is pretty impressive...no?

In fact, the biggest complaints I have heard about Zum have been 1) overcrowding (diminishing the advertised comfort level) and 2) spotty record in keeping to schedules (quite possibly related to the overcrowding leading to longer idling at stops and depots as people get on and off)......this move to larger buses seems to be an attempt at adressing that .

So, if Zum itself is a marginal improvement on regular bus service and it worked...perhaps this new buses are just a continuation of marginal improvements that could lead to even greater adoption rates.

One of my biggest criticisms of our region is that (IMO) we are hooked on "grand projects" and we often lose sight of how small projects can make larger (relative to their cost/time-to-implement) impacts. In the past I have raved about small projects like eliminating the Dufferin Jog....punching Simcoe under the rail corridor.....and I think Zum is a suburban transit version of those. Not too too expensive (but not free) but having quite an impact.
 
"rapid" is a relative term. Compared to a subway, Zum doesn't qualify as rapid transit, but compared to typical suburban bus service, it qualifies. Yes, its really just a limited-stop route, with modest infrastructure upgrades. But its faster, more frequent, more comfortable, and more reliable than the service it replaced. And best of all, the project didn't break the bank. Nobody is telling Brampton council to stop spending money on Zum expansion.
 
TOareaFan said:
Does it matter what it is called if it is effective in increasing the adoption rate of public transit? Particularly in an area (suburbs) where we would not normally expect high(er) use of transit.

Whether it is just marketing/perception or actually rapid transit...the facts are, since Zum was introduced in Brampton the rate of growth in ridership has been triple the rate of growth in the city's population. That is pretty impressive...no?

In fact, the biggest complaints I have heard about Zum have been 1) overcrowding (diminishing the advertised comfort level) and 2) spotty record in keeping to schedules (quite possibly related to the overcrowding leading to longer idling at stops and depots as people get on and off)......this move to larger buses seems to be an attempt at adressing that .

So, if Zum itself is a marginal improvement on regular bus service and it worked...perhaps this new buses are just a continuation of marginal improvements that could lead to even greater adoption rates.

One of my biggest criticisms of our region is that (IMO) we are hooked on "grand projects" and we often lose sight of how small projects can make larger (relative to their cost/time-to-implement) impacts. In the past I have raved about small projects like eliminating the Dufferin Jog....punching Simcoe under the rail corridor.....and I think Zum is a suburban transit version of those. Not too too expensive (but not free) but having quite an impact.
Click to expand...

I am with you on everything. I've always felt that what features BRT has to have to call it BRT is academic, and we should not implement a system just because some other city does it.

If I were in charge, there would be limited stop bus routes running on all major arteries as soon as possible.
 
It's not BRT, it's BRT-lite, or quality express bus. The term BRT has been watered down considerably, but bus service between simple express buses and Ottawa Transitway style full BRT with full, all day service with minimum headways and additional fixed infrastructure such as bus-only lanes, upgraded stops and queue jumps include Viva and Zum.

But a record ridership of over 16 million, a 18 percent increase and improved system-wide service (a constant 5 year long trend) is something that should be celebrated for a suburban agency. Getting 20 artics this year, all growth buses, will help bring BT further into the major leagues.
 
Brampton Transit is like the opposite of YRT. Both had absolutedly terrible systems in 2004 (even compared to Mississauga Transit), but Brampton's BRT-lite scheme resulted in accelerated ridership growth, exceeding expectations, while YRT's BRT-lite resulted in crippled ridership growth. And yes it is BRT-lite, not BRT, as Shon said.

Yes, Zum (and Brampton's overall transit plan) is successful. But that means we can define as anything we want? What kind of argument is that? By that logic, I can call it a subway system if I want to. That doesn't make sense to me. Just because it is a success doesn't make it a BRT or rapid transit or whatever we want. Conversely, the Mississauga Transitway could end up a colossal failure and it would still be BRT.
 
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