Brampton Transit/Zum

Discussion in 'Transportation and Infrastructure' started by spmarshall, Aug 25, 2006.

  1. spmarshall

    spmarshall Guest

    If new MT buses warrants a topic, then Brampton's big service changes also deserve a topic.

    BT has posted their changes this week on-line, including an updated system map. Basically, a few more routes get evening/weekend service (9A, 13), routing is changed or extended on a few more routes, and more branches are being used to provide higher levels of service on the busiest portions of routes (7/7A Kennedy, 11/11A Steeles). A few more routes (26, 40, 53) are added to clean up routings and provide more direct service.

    Service Changes Page

    For the most part, the changes look great, and fixed up most of what's left from the huge 2005 changes. I used to live on the 1B, which is now being dissolved and joined with 52, and they finally got that schedule fixed up to get rid of that lousy 25/50 minute headway that screwed up transfers and GO Train connections. They finally have good service levels on 11 Steeles during rush hours. Though Route 2 STILL does not enter Shoppers, a big mistake!

    I think service levels are very close to Mississauga Transit given the size difference. The change in BT management and a more transit-friendly mayor and council did the trick.

  2. dashingdan

    dashingdan Guest

    I don't live in Brampton, but many people do, and I'm happy for them. I wonder if MT and BT will ever be amalgamated. It doesn't seem likely though. It happened in York and Durham regions, but even YRT and DRT are both probably smaller than MT on its own.

    Speaking of BT though, has it started work on its Acceleride project or whatever its called? I mean both BT and MT got provincial funding for their BRTs, but have they started yet with no federal funding?
  3. ahrvojic

    ahrvojic Guest

  4. doady

    doady Guest

    Route 52 went from bad to worse. People using the original 52 can no longer get to Sheridan College, it will take longer for people who were using the 1B. Brampton Transit needs to bring back the orignal route 2, including stops at Shopper's World and the downtown terminal.

    Despite this and many other bad routings, the rate at which Brampton is increasing service is admirable. Steeles is a very crowded bus route, and it is good that Brampton actually cares enough to solve this kind of problem, unlike right-wing Mississauga.

    Mississauga Transit may better service than BT now, but is exanding very slowly. Not only is the city ultra-conservative when it comes to spending, MT has to spend $30 million to expand a garage, and there also are huge number of buses to replace and the cancellation fo the Ontario Transit Vehicle Replacement program will only make things worse. Mississauga will not be able keep up with BT or YRT, and both systems will likely surpass MT in few years.

    Already, MT is starting to fall behind. BT provides better rush hour service on Dixie than MT does (7.5 min compared to 9 min), not to mention higher frequency than every MT route except Hurontario (not including MT's overlapping routes).
  5. dashingdan

    dashingdan Guest

    doady i really don't get how u get on mississuaga's case for being ultraconservative or conservative at all. when's the last time mississauga elected a conservative mp? do we have any conservative mps right now? no!

    mississauga is rightwing and therefore has worse bus service than brampton? wtf?

    seriously man, do you THINK about what you say? OMG MT IS RIGHTWING BECAUSE A BUS DRIVER WAS AN ASSHOLE. my god.

    BT or YRT surpassing MT? Don't make me laugh. You already lost all credibility with your ridiculous Islington assertions that MT stopping closer to Mississauga would INCREASE travel times for MT lol. And now the whole anti-right-wing crusade, it's just funny.
  6. Hey dashingdan, why so hostile? Doady seems to follow transit matters in the west end pretty closely, and as a resident of the area myself, I find his posts to be worth reading. For a start, you may be confusing conservative and Conservative. I think an argument can be made that Miss. has had pretty "conservative" attitudes toward planning and transit for many years, although I would also argue that this is changing in recent yearrs. Hazel for one has "seen the light", and major transit developments are coming in the next few years in Mississauga.

    Congratulations to Brampton for upgrading transit service. It wasn't too long ago that transit in Brampton was a joke, particularly on weekends.

    As for surpassing Miss. Transit, I doubt that Brampton Transit will do that any time soon, but I can see transit in York Region getting to a similar size as Mississauga. York Region has a comparable population, and is still growing at a pretty steady pace, whereas Miss. is approaching full buildout and will not have a lot more population growth. There also seems to be a strong political will in YR to really push transit.
  7. adma

    adma Guest

    Remember: "conservative" in this case = "cautious", as opposed to "Tory".

    Some may even say that Toronto's champagne socialists can be "conservative" when it comes to certain forms of urban intensification, etc...
  8. doady

    doady Guest

    First of all, it was just jokes man. Hazel McCallion has a reputation for being very conservative (in many deserved AND undeserved ways) so I just play it up (nothing to do with federal politics). I also never said Brampton has a better system than Mississauga.

    I was pointing out MT's slow growth, I did put most of the blame on the Liberals and the fact that MT is already a large and old system to begin with, so I don't really see how you think I am on some sort of crusade against right-wingers. After all, I have criticized the City of Toronto's spending on transit under David Miller more than I have Mississauga's.

    And I don't know what you are going on about Islington. I recall saying that MT stopping only Kipling would inconvenience people who only need to go as far as Islington. I don't see what is wrong with this: Etobicoke City Centre is a major node after all, and is designated as an Urban Growth Centre under Ontario's greenbelt plan, and so there a quite a few people who live and work near Islington.
  9. spmarshall

    spmarshall Guest

    I agree the conenction at Shoppers World is necessary (and am at a loss as to why BT won't consider this important connection), but the downtown one isn't, as it stops on Main St just outside the terminal. Just like MT buses stopping on Rathburn instead of inside the terminal.
  10. spmarshall

    spmarshall Guest

    BT just announced the construction of a second garage. Ridership is up over 10 percent this year, and will pass the 10 million mark for the first time (BT posts a 10-year ridership count on their website).

    They also made some changes as of October 30, that improved the route 4 somewhat (better weekend service) and fixed up the route 12 (which had 42 minute service on Sat evenings).

    BT still has issues - like some of the routes around Shoppers World, and still sub-par evening/weekend service.

    Media Release#: 06-190
    For Immediate Release - November 02, 2006

    City of Brampton Constructing Second Bus Facility

    BRAMPTON – To keep pace with the growing ridership numbers for Brampton Transit service, the City of Brampton is building a second bus facility on Sandalwood Parkway West at the site of an existing City Works and Transportation yard.

    On Oct. 11, City Council awarded the construction contract to Aquicon Construction Co Ltd. Construction of the facility began last month. As part of the construction, temporary baseball diamonds established on the site have been removed and sports groups using the site have been relocated to other City facilities. All lights and bleachers on the site have been safely removed and will be stored by the City of Brampton and then reused at a City sports field.

    The new Brampton Transit Sandalwood Facility will support the operation of 200 12.2 metre (40-foot) buses. It will include a maintenance garage with 11 hoists and a state-of-the-art control centre to manage new transit technologies. Plans include an expanded customer service call centre to meet the demands of the increasing number of calls.

    When complete, the Brampton Transit Sandalwood Facility will contain noise-reduction measures to ensure the City of Brampton continues to be a good neighbour. A key measure is a building designed to minimize noise impacts on the surrounding residential properties.

    Any diesel-related emissions will be mitigated by the City of Brampton to ensure the City’s commitment to clean air continues. Computer model testing undertaken by the construction manager for the new facility indicates that the Brampton Transit Sandalwood Facility, when complete, will meet all Ministry of the Environment air emission standards.

    Brampton Transit currently operates a fleet of 190 transit vehicles from a facility that has capacity for 150 vehicles, which is resulting in operational challenges. As the City continues to grow, transit ridership is increasing at a level that is approximately five times the national average.

    “Last month, Brampton Transit broke its previous record for monthly ridership, carrying nearly 967,000 passengers, a 14 per cent increase over October of 2005,†said Sue Bass, Director of Brampton Transit. “And we are confident Brampton Transit will break the 10 million mark for ridership in 2006. This growth is causing extreme pressure for transit service increases to be planned and implemented at regular intervals.â€

    The year-to-date average for ridership growth is 12 per cent. In 2005, Brampton Transit increased service by 25 per cent using a grid-based route system. This year, Brampton Transit increased service by another 10 per cent. For the first time, transit routes had frequencies of less than 10 minutes, providing residents with more frequent service and better connections between routes.

    When the new Sandalwood facility is complete, Brampton Transit headquarters will continue to operate from 185 Clark Blvd. For information about the new Brampton Transit Sandalwood Facility, visit or call 905-874-2750.
  11. ShonTron

    ShonTron Moderator

    Apr 24, 2007
    Likes Received:
    Ward 27
    I attended a PIC last week at Brampton City Hall, the first time I've been through Brampton in a few months - also gave me a chance to ride the Georgetown Train that I learned to hate.

    Brampton went from 1 person in charge of route planning to a team of seven within three years. The planners seem to know their stuff, and actually ride the buses in service as part of their jobs. I'm a bit of a transit cynic, but they did seem to know what they are doing, and even were understanding and apologetic about things I said they should do, but don't yet have funding or buses to do yet.

    Coming in September:
    Route 9B - extension to Williams Parkway/James Potter and then to Mount Pleasant, new evening, weekend service. Several route extensions in north (12, 14, 15, 18) to service new subdivisions.

    Route 11 - Split into 11 Steeles East and 51 Steeles West. Route 11 to get 6 minute service in peak, 15 service midday, 20-30 at all other times (including Sunday). Route 51 to be extended to Meadowvale Blvd in Mississauga to connect with MT 42, 61, 82. Service to be cut on route 51, which will get 20 minute peak service, 30-40 minutes all other times.

    New route connecting Gore Road with Springdale (54), new route on Heart Lake Road and South Lake Blvd (21). Other routes to get schedule improvements - 5, 7, 30, 50.

    I also found out more about about Acceleride. It's a go, and now the planning is well underway. Buses - will be "distinct" - planning for higher-end buses offering a premium product - ad free on outside (no wraps), better seating, noise suppression. The person in charge admitted that they will probably not be VanHools like Viva, but will be "better" than the typical bus.

    Service will be 5-15 minutes at all times. No pre-boarding fare payment, I was told, they will rely on the new smart card. Shelters will be large at the "stations", with bike racks, garbage bins, real-time data screens, seating, and heated in winter.

    I asked about the routings - the maps are simple - the first phase will be on Queen from Downtown to York Region, and on Main/Hurontario from Downtown to Mississauga. They said that they do not want to dump riders in the middle of nowhere, so will provide service as far as York University (until Sorbara subway is extended) and Square One - they will enter talks with YRT and MT to do this. The 407/10 GO stop will not be a terminus except maybe for local route 2s - they expect the Brampton Acceleride and MT buses to go through. I was impressed by this thinking. Brampton might work with YRT to replace or augment the dismal ridership on the Viva Orange line.

    Will be operational in three years (2010) with full implementation of Phase I in 2012.

    I think Brampton's finally got something going WRT transit.
  12. doady

    doady Senior Member

    Apr 24, 2007
    Likes Received:
    Wouldn't 51 will be Steeles West, not Steeles East? It doesn't make sense for Steeles West to have more service than Steeles East.

    I tihnk BT needs to provide proper two-way service on Rutherford Road S and on West Dr and get rid of those ridiculous loops of route 10 and 42. The West Dr route can serve the Cardiff Loop and connect with MT routes 5, 15, 15A, 15B, 42, and 51.

    The Rutherford route can terminate as the 10 does now at Orion Gate or it can be extended to Shopper's World; but the Shopper's World terminal is crowded enough already and Steeles already has frequent service so up to Orion Gate is probably good enough.

    Still, I think overall BT is doing much better job improving service than either MT or YRT who set the standard very low. Patheticly low.
  13. ShonTron

    ShonTron Moderator

    Apr 24, 2007
    Likes Received:
    Ward 27
    Yep, I mixed them up.

    There's a detailed Strategic Plan that has detailed plans and timelines online.

    I'd agree - even the old Route 10 that ran from downtown to BCC and provided bi-directional service on both West and Rutherford did better, though the connection to Orion Gate makes sense for the high schoolers at Turner Fenton.

    You mean Route 40, not 42? At least the long industrial loopy thing was severed from the 15.
  14. arnold

    arnold Guest

    this might sound a bit uninformed to transit experts such as yourselves, but after my last trip home to brampton a couple of months ago, i was pretty suprised at the rate of development of the area. especially MCC and downtown brampton (although i realize the difference between the two). and it seemed to me that the city/region was crying out for some sort of LRT or higher order transit.

    and since so many of the main transit hubs lie on the same main thoroughfares, it would seem like a no brainer, wouldn't it? i mean, the city centre, the downtown brampton GO station, shoppers world and square one are all (basically) straight shots from each other. all on fairly developed or up and coming parcels of land. and given the wide roads and ample medians, track for an LRT would be easy to lay down, wouldn't it? cost aside of course...

    and again, this has probably been discussed brfore, but has there been any discussion of integrating some of the routes and/or running an LRT between these stations? how long would it take a TO style streetcar to travel from MCC to downtown brampton and then on to the city centre? and wouldn't something like this be a boon to the region by helping to feed the GO network for commuters in the area who would otherwise clog up the 407?
  15. Tuscani01

    Tuscani01 Senior Member

    Apr 22, 2007
    Likes Received:
    Mississauga is doing a feasibility study for light rail (or another form of higher order transit) along Hurontario which would eventually go right up to Brampton.

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