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Black Lives Matter Toronto

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Riverdale Rink Rat said:
I understand your point of view, but obviously I don't agree. People dying is sad to me, even if they're irredeemable criminals. And, again, 'having a gun in hand' is not the same thing at all as shooting at the cops.
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People who shouldn't be holding a gun dying because of it is less sad to me than people who didn't hold one dying because he did - and here in Canada, there is absolutely no reason to be carrying one.

AoD
 
ttk77 said:
One side doesn't always have to be wrong for the other side to be right. It can be true that the police have the right to defend themselves and also true that the man in question didn't deserve to die.
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Yes and no - if you publicly display a weapon in an urban area, it is hard to assume anything but the intent/potential intent to cause harm. Not necessarily an excuse to shoot on sight, of course, but it sets the bar very low for intervention of anything but the deadly kind.

AoD
 
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Y'all are falling into a trap, IMHO, which is why we differ. You're assuming that this went down the way the police said it did. I'm assuming that it didn't. That's not to say they killed him in cold blood. Just that I no longer believe the police are neutral arbiters.
 
I think there may also be a philosophical difference in what we all mean by the word "deserve" too. I think if things did go down the way the police say (and I agree, that's not necessarily the case) that they were justified in their actions. That's very different than saying that the guy deserved to die though.
 
ttk77 said:
I think there may also be a philosophical difference in what we all mean by the word "deserve" too. I think if things did go down the way the police say (and I agree, that's not necessarily the case) that they were justified in their actions. That's very different than saying that the guy deserved to die though.
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Indeed - "deserve" to me doesn't mean those with a legal monopoly on violence purposefully go out an kill on behalf of the state, as punishment - but that it is justified loss that is intended to prevent further deaths.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Well, yes and no - holding a gun in and on itself puts the individual in a higher category of risk where lethal force could very well be used
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But in the States, where conceal and open carry is becoming the norm, being armed or holding a gun is not in itself a reason for excessive policing.
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
Y'all are falling into a trap, IMHO, which is why we differ. You're assuming that this went down the way the police said it did. I'm assuming that it didn't. That's not to say they killed him in cold blood. Just that I no longer believe the police are neutral arbiters.
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I have to agree after watching vids of police apparently needlessly killing civilians that I am unwilling to simply assume the cops are always the white hats.
 
There's a lot of stuff going on in the US that we miss when we look at one protest/riot or shooting/incident. There's the demographic, economic and history of specific states/towns/regions with respect to race relations. And then, right now, there's the election and the Trump Phenomena. More horrific to me than the police actions and reactions in the streets is the very real threat that is being articulated and reported in some US media that David Duke, who never left the KKK, and the leader of the American Nazi Party that in Trump they see opportunities for appointments to Federal positions and real influence in helping him to implement his stated policy goals domestically. I'm sure their local activists and chapters are activated on the ground because The Donald is counting on them to get out the vote for him.

Trump has been careful not to attack Blacks the way he has hammered Muslims and Mexicans, but the message is there plain as can be. That serves to amplify the real fears and tensions Blacks feel in the blatant police involved brutality. We also forget that the NRA jumps up when there are mass shootings, usually committed by whites. encouraging Americans to be armed and ready to defend themselves and most states have very lax gun laws. The right to bear arms is not race restricted but when Blacks legally have guns they are automatically deemed to have criminal intent. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more return fire.
 
One big problem in America is the police have a culture from the top down to protect their own...even bad ones. THAT needs to change.

The police need a huge reform in their training, and officers need to be held accountable when wrong.



Bill Maher is spot on.

 
gabe said:
One big problem in America is the police have a culture from the top down to protect their own...even bad ones. THAT needs to change.

The police need a huge reform in their training, and officers need to be held accountable when wrong.

Bill Maher is spot on
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ALL groups, including government and (para)military look after themselves.
 
tiffer24 said:
Easy to forget that we’ve had a number of destructive riots involving white hockey fans (yes, with burning cars, looting, etc.) in the last few years. I guess all this qualifies as good-natured fun, blowing off steam, blah, blah, blah…
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It's true. There was a video that came out last year highlighting the media hypocrisy in its coverage of white riots vs black protests.

 
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