LCBO / The Beer Store

[Northern Light]

Okay, enough with the contrarianism and exclaiming why some idea would not, should not or could not work.

To whom are you speaking? You didn't hit reply or tag anyone. I assume its me.

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You realize this is a forum in which you often give your opinions, without any citations to back them up; as most posters do?

You also realize, I'm famously the tl : dr poster who posts more citations and reports than just about anyone?

I don't see why you need to be so critical here, or why you wouldn't given some presumption that I know what I'm talking about....... (because I do)

You can't just whinge on without contributing.

Really?

So, what's the fix to theft at the LCBO?

For a start:

Suspect facing more than 280 charges in connection with alleged LCBO thefts totalling $88,000: YRP

York Regional Police say they have laid more than 280 charges against a single suspect as part of an ongoing investigation into retail thefts in Ontario.

www.cp24.com

Addressing organized crime and repeat offenders doing this at-scale as in the case described above.

Strategically employing police in the guard capacity as Loblaws is doing, for a time, to break habitual patterns of offense.

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Broader social issues. Poverty is not an excuse for crime. But individual desperation is a factor in some cases, meager social assistance, minimum wage etc. are issues w/play here at the periphery; as is timely access to quality addiction treatment.

 

[Northern Light]

I need to work on my sense of humour, it’s obviously not working.

?

I don't see anything in my post that was meant to be humourous.

Your post is uncharacteristically non-constructive for you.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Strategically employing police in the guard capacity as Loblaws is doing, for a time, to break habitual patterns of offense.

This would help. If every Brinks guard is armed and trained to protect cash, we could do the same for the LCBO.

Broader social issues. Poverty is not an excuse for crime. But individual desperation is a factor in some cases, meager social assistance, minimum wage etc. are issues w/play here at the periphery; as is timely access to quality addiction treatment.

That's demand side where the target has no influence. Society is in the sh#tter, but those are the cards the retailer is dealt. It's the supply side of theft that the LCBO can impact.

For example, in my neighbourhood most people don't have parcels delivered to their door because of porch pirates, and otherwise harden their properties against thieves through gates, iron fences, window bars, good locks, clear sight lines from the street beside windows, sensor lights and cameras. We can't address the demand for things to steal, but we can influence the supply.

For crime to happen, both motivation and opportunity must exist. The LCBO needs to reduce the opportunity.

 

[lenaitch]

“vulnerable people”…. Sheesh. Let’s call them what they are, thieves, and often involved in organized crime. They're not stealing food to keep themselves or family fed, nor squatting due to need of shelter, things when we're desperate we might understand. Not everyone is broken, sometimes there are just bad people.

Fair enough, I was trying to be sensitive. Sure they are thieves but I suspect the vast majority are socially vulnerable; homeless, addicted, etc. and are stealing either for their own addiction or to sell on the street at pennies on the dollar. I doubt organized crime groups are much involved, although as evidenced by the York Regional arrest, there is an element of it. Operations like illegal gaming houses (of which York is noted for) aren't too keen on getting Special Occasion Permits to supply their operations because they leave a paper trail and can be a flag. If you have the connections to be a supplier, it's not a bad gig. Even if you do get caught, it's theft, not robbery, and I suspect that most counts would be Theft Under $5000.

The LCBO has all of this factored into their stock shrinkage calculations. They can only do what the government lets them do, and their initiative to screen customers lasted, what, a day, until the government stepped in.

 

[lenaitch]

This would help. If every Brinks guard is armed and trained to protect cash, we could do the same for the LCBO.

Brink's et al armed security personnel are armed to protect themselves by virtue of the property they are protecting, not to protect the property.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The LCBO has all of this factored into their stock shrinkage calculations.

Someone should have told that to the off duty Durham cop. The sequence of events he ignited by playing theft prevention and leading to three dead, over nothing, will stay with him forever.

 

[lenaitch]

Someone should have told that to the off duty Durham cop. The sequence of events he ignited by playing theft prevention and leading to three dead, over nothing, will stay with him forever.

No doubt. I don't know LCBO's policy but it might well be that, if it were not for the presence of the off duty cop, it might not even have been reported as a crime-in-progress.

 

[TossYourJacket]

This would help. If every Brinks guard is armed and trained to protect cash, we could do the same for the LCBO.

We aren't America and shouldn't aspire to be America. The threat of being shot dead at any given moment should not be how we govern societal behaviour.

Do we want a society where PoC and people who are LGBT+ are afraid to go to the LCBO? Like I am the most rule abiding person I know, and yet because I'm gay, and I know the history of gay people and the Toronto police, I am constantly nervous that something bad will happen to me the moment a police officer is around. In an ideal world that wouldn't be a thing but it is. And it's a reputation TPD has earned over several decades. And I sure as hell trust private security even less than TPD, especially if you give them guns.

I just don't think a culture of fear is a thing we want in our society. And there's a real difference between security/police who are armed vs unarmed in terms of the level of fear that generates.

 

[Admiral Beez]

We aren't America and shouldn't aspire to be America. The threat of being shot dead at any given moment should not be how we govern societal behaviour.

Understood. What’s your proposed solution to theft at the lcbo?

 

[Fritter]

Understood. What’s your proposed solution to theft at the lcbo?

Maybe various governments can reduce duties/taxes and allow the LCBO pass along the discounts they receive from being the world's largest purchaser of beverage alcohol so it would be less costly to purchase. I realize that won't solve all thefts, but may greatly reduce thefts especially if the thefts are ment for resale on black markets (at a reduced price)

 

[lenaitch]

I doubt the motivation for the thefts is the pricing.

 

[Northern Light]

I doubt the motivation for the thefts is the pricing.

I would broadly agree, with the caveat that:

Certainly pricing many deem to be unreasonable and which is indeed costly, particularly for those who would buy wholesale (restaurants/bars); booze at 75% off discount from someone fencing what they just walked out has a market. To the addict, or otherwise desperate person, all that matters is cash-in-the-pocket; but the question of how much cash, and how many take the risk of buying under-the-table is one that is at least partially driven by retail price.

For all of that, I agree its a very peripheral factor, at best, and one that would be more expensive to resolve through price reduction than absorbing theft.

 

[torontowest91]

I doubt the motivation for the thefts is the pricing.

people steal from Dollarama, theft will always occur no matter the price

 

[gabe]

Maybe various governments can reduce duties/taxes and allow the LCBO pass along the discounts they receive from being the world's largest purchaser of beverage alcohol so it would be less costly to purchase. I realize that won't solve all thefts, but may greatly reduce thefts especially if the thefts are ment for resale on black markets (at a reduced price)

Seems to work in the US. I have been to Texas, Nevada and other red neck states, i don't see any security guards like you see here. Probably because booze is so cheap, not worth stealing. Expensive stuff is locked behind cages and plexiglass.

Even the cheap booze is crazy expensive at the LCBO. I have seen bottles of scotch selling for $100 at the LCBO sell for $45 in Buffalo two hours away. LCBO pricing is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[lenaitch]

I would broadly agree, with the caveat that:

Certainly pricing many deem to be unreasonable and which is indeed costly, particularly for those who would buy wholesale (restaurants/bars); booze at 75% off discount from someone fencing what they just walked out has a market. To the addict, or otherwise desperate person, all that matters is cash-in-the-pocket; but the question of how much cash, and how many take the risk of buying under-the-table is one that is at least partially driven by retail price.

For all of that, I agree its a very peripheral factor, at best, and one that would be more expensive to resolve through price reduction than absorbing theft.

people steal from Dollarama, theft will always occur no matter the price

No doubt theft will always be an issue in retail, but when you videos of people wandering the aisles with a cart brimming with booze then casually walking out, I don't view that on the same level as somebody slipping the odd item under their coat at Canadian Tire. That booze is more likely being sold on the street than the box of drill bits.

Seems to work in the US. I have been to Texas, Nevada and other red neck states, i don't see any security guards like you see here. Probably because booze is so cheap, not worth stealing. Expensive stuff is locked behind cages and plexiglass.

Even the cheap booze is crazy expensive at the LCBO. I have seen bottles of scotch selling for $100 at the LCBO sell for $45 in Buffalo two hours away. LCBO pricing is absolutely ridiculous.

An additional disincentive might be the open-carry armed dude behind the counter and a stronger legal sense or property protection, with or without a stand-you-ground law.