TSO cancels performance of Valentina Lisitsa

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Where am I standing up for Putin's Russia? Please point out a specific comment/post that I've made that can back up your accustations. Ask yourself why Edward Snowden is currently in Russia afraid to go back to the 'west'; also for toeing a different line than the state department (and exposing their nefarious actions).

Actually, I would ask myself why Edward Snowden is currently in Russia, period. And let's juxtaposition it against say, I don't know, the case of Sub-Lt. Delisle.

She is a Ukrainian, born in that country with Russian/Ukrainian ethnic lineage. She is perfectly entitled to say whatever the hell she wants about the civil war brewing in her country. Maybe next time we won't meddle in a state's internal affairs... By now we should have learned our lesson (Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, Ukraine, etc).

Btw, that tweet was completely mistranslated. This is pure propaganda coming from the Canadian-Ukrainian congress. I'm sorry but they're schooled by the same USSR Politburo brush on how to bend information and sway public opinion.

And she is perfectly entitled to the consequences of her speech. As to meddling in the internal affairs of others - especially in the context of the forementioned states - those who live in glass houses should definitely not throw stones.

AoD

 

[Filip]

And she is perfectly entitled to the consequences of her speech. As to meddling in the internal affairs of others - especially in the context of the forementioned states - those who live in glass houses should definitely not throw stones.

AoD

So is the TSO going to ban Itzhak Perlman from performing due to his Zionist and anti-Palestinian views? (he has said some pretty offensive stuff over the years...)

This is the problem with 'selective' censoring, especially when it's due to bending to the pressure put by a special interest group.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

So is the TSO going to ban Itzhak Perlman from performing due to his Zionist and anti-Palestinian views? (he has said some pretty offensive stuff over the years...)

This is the problem with 'selective' censoring, especially when it's due to bending to the pressure put by a special interest group.

That's realpolitik, buddy. TSO, at the end of the day, has to look at their bottom line just as much as anyone else.

AoD

 

[Tewder]

I think it was the wrong move on the part of the TSO. It's not like she made the comments from the stage during a performance. She made them in a personal context, to my knowledge. It is a slippery slope when we start censuring artists. We should expect them to be passionate, provocative and have a strong point of view, creative or otherwise. In fact creativity is often motivated and nurtured by said points of view. Score one for political correctness, but our arts scene is a little more provincial for it.

 

[Filip]

That's realpolitik, buddy. TSO, at the end of the day, has to look at their bottom line just as much as anyone else.

AoD

Hence why I've cancelled my subscription (and will never attend another TSO concert again) - that's called business.

Either way, attending concerts for the last 15 years, I've noticed there is huge Russian patronage, and I think they'll also pull their support. Bad move for the TSO overall.

I don't like censorship. I don't like lobbying by special interest groups that can't leave their problems in their home country even more.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Hence why I've cancelled my subscription (and will never attend another TSO concert again) - that's called business.

Either way, attending concerts for the last 15 years, I've noticed there is huge Russian patronage, and I think they'll also pull their support. Bad move for the TSO overall.

I don't like censorship. I don't like lobbying by special interest groups that can't leave their problems in their home country even more.

I am sure that's part of their calculus. It's something for TSO to worry about (and as mentioned, I am sure they would have been put into that situation either way).

As to the issue of special interest, well, like it or not Canada is already involved in the troubles of their home country, and on other fronts.

AoD

 

[Filip]

I am sure that's part of their calculus. It's something for TSO to worry about (and as mentioned, I am sure they would have been put into that situation either way).

AoD

And given how continuously shitty their financial position has been, a bad move overall.

What makes me laugh is we (as taxpayers) will end up bailing them out when the shit really hits the fan. Maybe next time they should leave politics and lobbying out of classical music and arts.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And given how continuously shitty their financial position has been, a bad move overall.

What makes me laugh is we (as taxpayers) will end up bailing them out when the shit really hits the fan. Maybe next time they should leave politics and lobbying out of classical music and arts.

From the way it sounded over the past decade or two, I am sure we had to bail them out with or without this s**t in any case, and of course, it brings into focus the issue of paltry state support to start off with.

AoD

 

[Filip]

As to the issue of special interest, well, like it or not Canada is already involved in the troubles of their home country, and on other fronts.

AoD

Realpolitik or not, I find it disturbing that our government's position is basically vote-pandering to Ukrainians (Canada having the largest population).

Harper has raised many eyebrows (both in Canada, but mostly internationally) with his almost rabid anti-Russian stance. His position and tone makes the Americans' look nuanced in comparison, and that speaks volumes. It's pathetic in the sense that we all know the old adage - the small dogs have the biggest bark but smallest bite....

 

[TOareaFan]

She is a Ukrainian, born in that country with Russian/Ukrainian ethnic lineage. She is perfectly entitled to say whatever the hell she wants about the civil war brewing in her country. Maybe next time we won't meddle in a state's internal affairs... By now we should have learned our lesson (Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, Ukraine, etc).

Btw, that tweet was completely mistranslated. This is pure propaganda coming from the Canadian-Ukrainian congress. I'm sorry but they're schooled by the same USSR Politburo brush on how to bend information and sway public opinion.

Like I said, I am following this very casually but everything I have read about her describes her as Ukrainian born but of Russian and Polish heritage.

I would agree that she is entitled to say whatever she wants about the politics, war (civil or otherwise) and matters like that. But when it gets to just pure insults she (anyone actually) loses me....and, as others say, while she (or anyone) may be free to say what they want it does not mean there would not be consequences to that.

As for the Canadian-Ukranian congress conducting propoganda by mis-translating her tweets....they must have international reach because media in other places are using the same translation. Here is one i found in a quick google search.

http://www.examiner.com/list/valentina-lisitsa-s-vitriol-nazi-rhetoric-or-music-to-your-ears

 

[Tewder]

Yes, you can stay away if you choose, it's your right. The TSO has made that choice for us though unilaterally, which is wrong. Their mandate is to provide artistic excellence, not weigh in on issues such as this. This is the mandate they receive funding for.

Artists say and do offensive and provocative things, the good ones do at least. This has been the case all through history. Once we start censuring we will be left with mediocrity. Compare the writers within the safe government-sanctioned Academie Francaise in France for example vs all that were banned/rejected (Rousseau, Balzac, Moliere, Sartre, Zola, Flaubert, Gide etc, etc). It is the latter group which have achieved immortality, not the so-called les Immortels themselves.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yes, you can stay away if you choose, it's your right. The TSO has made that choice for us though unilaterally, which is wrong. Their mandate is to provide artistic excellence, not weigh in on issues such as this. This is the mandate they receive funding for.

Artists say and do offensive and provocative things, the good ones do at least. This has been the case all through history. Once we start censuring we will be left with mediocrity. Compare the writers within the safe government-sanctioned Academie Francaise in France for example vs all that were banned/rejected (Rousseau, Balzac, Moliere, Sartre, Zola, Flaubert, Gide etc, etc). It is the latter group which have achieved immortality, not the so-called les Immortels themselves.

Let's not equate offense as a prerequisite to excellence - you might have a point when we are talking about writers/philosophers, whose role is to critique contemporary society, but I am fairly certain it's a little different for pianists and the like. Hero-worship for individuals making such odious comments on the basis that they align with one's belief in "free speech" is a little off mark I think.

And speaking of decency - would you be so quick to proclaim the role of TSO if we are talking about an artist who will break all the protocols and etiquette around performance? Excellence is not something considered in a vacuum.

AoD

 

[Tewder]

Let's not equate offense as a prerequisite to excellence - you might have a point when we are talking about writers/philosophers, whose role is to critique contemporary society, but I am fairly certain it's a little different for pianists and the like. Hero-worship for individuals making such odious comments on the basis that they align with one's belief in "free speech" is a little off mark I think.

And speaking of decency - would you be so quick to proclaim the role of TSO if we are talking about an artist who will break all the protocols and etiquette around performance? Excellence is not something considered in a vacuum.

AoD

It's complicated no question. Being 'offensive' and having a strong point of view are often two sides of the same coin, it coming down to one's perspective (as we see in this case, pro and con). I really can't comment on this particular artist, i am not qualified. I just feel we need to be very careful about censuring the arts. A controversial artist can be presented responsibly if perspective and balance is provided. I feel the TSO took the easy way out.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's complicated no question. Being 'offensive' and having a strong point of view are often two sides of the same coin, it coming down to one's perspective (as we see in this case, pro and con). I really can't comment on this particular artist, i am not qualified. I just feel we need to be very careful about censuring the arts. A controversial artist can be presented responsibly if perspective and balance is provided. I feel the TSO took the easy way out.

I really don't know if the TSO has done the right or wrong thing.....but I don't think what they did fits the bill as censuring the arts. They did not re-write a song...ban the playing of a lyric....repaint a picutre....ban the displaying of a picture/sculpture....they did not rip pages out of a book or ban a book from a public library. They did not censor the arts at all.....they took offense to, or made a business decision predicated on, the non-arts related tweets of a piano player.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You could also add Ezra Pound, Emil Jannings and Leni Riefenstahl to the list of "free speech" champions--except no one likes to talk much about these creatives, artists that ended up on the wrong side of history...

Hell, let's be a bit more blunt - they ended up championing regimes that are the least free of all. To invoke free speech in that context is breathtaking hypocrisy. Frankly in this case TSO shouldn't even have to make that decision - she could have been stopped at the border for inciting hatred (and before anyone yells, doing so would hardly be a singular occurrence and is well within bounds of our laws).

AoD