TTC Cartography, Signage, and Wayfinding

[nfitz]

Where are you getting this 2030 date from?

In the spoken presentation from staff at the DRL open house last week, they said the DRL is probably about 10 to 14 years away at least. So 2025 to 2029 ... though given these things always slip, I'd say 2030 is optimistic.

 

[GenerationW]

Where are you getting this 2030 date from?

Makes sense. EA won't be done until 2016. The province will then take two years reviewing it before offering a recommendation. Then add as many as five years lining up funding, and we're at 2023 before construction begins.

That's if things go smoothly, and good luck with that.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Metrolinx has said by 2028 at the latest. Could it happen later than that? Of course, with all the politics involved. But it is misleading and inaccurate to say that 2030, a date that's after than Metrolinx's deadline, is the earliest the line can open.

 

[kotsy]

Agreed. Many systems do this, including Paris, New York and Madrid.

Yep, and London too.

New York's is electronic and constantly updating so you only see what stations are still to come including possible transfers . It's very useful.


NYC by
its only kotsy, on Flickr

 

[gweed123]

Yep, and London too.

New York's is electronic and constantly updating so you only see what stations are still to come including possible transfers . It's very useful.


https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/121506072@N02/14415795280/in/set-72157645572461324/

Yup, that system is even better. New York really needs that though, because of the Express and Local trains running along the same tracks. This type of system will likely be essential for GO RER, especially if there's a Toronto-centric service layered over top of the 905-centric service. It would be reasonable to assume that the 905-centric service would skip several more minor stops inside of Toronto that are served by the Toronto-centric service. Having that real-time "heads up" display will really help people figure out if the train they're on will be stopping at the station they need to get off at, or if they need to get off a few stations before and transfer onto a more local train.

 

[44 North]

I think the TTC will need to abandon the "whole system map above the door" concept, and start using that space for line-specific maps, with the full system map in the ad space beside the door. Boston's Green Line does a great job with this. Above the door is a line diagram of the line and all of it's branches, which easily shows what route branches off where. It also highlights transfer points by showing a different colour line bisecting the line you're currently on. If you want more detail, consult the system map.

East-west lines like Bloor-Danforth and Eglinton would be pretty easy to fit into that space, seeing as it's natural to view them that way relative to north. The Yonge-University line would need to be turned on its side in order to fit though, which may be confusing at first, since north would either be to the left or the right on the image, instead of the top.

Ah, good thinking. I was imagining having the ad space by the door become the spot since it’s visible to anyone near the door, and would allow our system to be more square and realistic. But putting to use the space above the door is definitely wise. And if we move to computerized display screens that can auto update whenever a train switches lines, things would be much more improved.

The point about how Line 1 would look as an individual route map is another reason I think we should split Yonge from University-Spadina. If U-S was a small section that doubled back north only to, say, Bloor – I could understand keeping them as one. But when both travel all the way to the boonies around the 407, I think it’s time to separate them at Union or St George. Things can be operated the same way they are now, the only difference being how it’s ID’d with a different colour/number. And I read your post about the Stag and Doe. Congrats.

Ultimately perhaps, but as we've already seen prototypes that include completed Lines 5, 6, and 7, along with the Line 1 and 2 extensions, I doubt this would happen for many decades.

The map the TTC presented a couple years ago when they moved to a numbering system? That prototype was absolutely ghastly. For one, I don’t believe the in-median FWLRT, Crosstown East, and SELRT should be on there - at least not with the same weighting (though that’s another argument for a different day). But the Spadina extension was just ridiculous looking. It was shown as mostly an E-W extension, and even then it wouldn’t be able to fit on the existing map’s dimensions without shrinking and cramming everything even further (including the font). The way it's shown, I don’t think it could work as a display map, and I think seeing that map was the tipping point for me.

Line 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 fit fine on the map since they're relatively straight longitudinal or latitudinal lines. However I suspect they'll be some challenges fitting in both SmartTrack and the Relief Line (line 8 & 9???) especially in the downtown core, because of their overlapping routes.

Yeah, I’ve tried inputting the DRL, SmartTrack, Crosstown, and VMC/RHC extensions to see how it looks on the existing map. It doesn’t work IMO. Line 1 is so tightly spaced that putting in station names with the same font size became a jumbled messy nightmare involving numerous arrows.

 

[gweed123]

Ah, good thinking. I was imagining having the ad space by the door become the spot since it’s visible to anyone near the door, and would allow our system to be more square and realistic. But putting to use the space above the door is definitely wise. And if we move to computerized display screens that can auto update whenever a train switches lines, things would be much more improved.

Yup. The NYC model I think would work best, where it would simply show the next X number of stations that that train will stop at. That way any train can be used on any line. It would be an expansion of the type of thing that's currently used on buses and streetcars, except showing multiple next stops instead of just the immediate next one.

The point about how Line 1 would look as an individual route map is another reason I think we should split Yonge from University-Spadina. If U-S was a small section that doubled back north only to, say, Bloor – I could understand keeping them as one. But when both travel all the way to the boonies around the 407, I think it’s time to separate them at Union or St George. Things can be operated the same way they are now, the only difference being how it’s ID’d with a different colour/number.

I think that as long as trains are running on one route, they should be shown as one line. The diagram would just look like a sideways U. The maps at transfer stations on the Bloor-Danforth line already kind of look like that, with the B-D line running vertically on the map, and the YUS U crossing it horizontally.

And I read your post about the Stag and Doe. Congrats.

Thanks! We had an unexpected power outage about an hour before the event start, so we had to scramble to find a bar to host the people there that night, and then we ran the actual Stag and Doe on Sunday. Busy weekend, haha.

 

[44 North]

Busy indeed, good stuff. And in answer to your other post about the size of the ad posters in the subway car, the Vertical Subway Posters are apparently 20"W x 28"H. Which isn't exactly all that big, particularly when compared to the length for the spot where the subway map is located: 70"W x 11"H (but keep in mind that ~25% of the map is emergency evac info).

All the sizes can be found here: http://www.blogto.com/city/2010/10/ever_wondered_what_it_costs_to_advertise_on_the_ttc/

 

[gweed123]

Busy indeed, good stuff. And in answer to your other post about the size of the ad posters in the subway car, the Vertical Subway Posters are apparently 20"W x 28"H. Which isn't exactly all that big, particularly when compared to the length for the spot where the subway map is located: 70"W x 11"H (but keep in mind that ~25% of the map is emergency evac info).

All the sizes can be found here: http://www.blogto.com/city/2010/10/ever_wondered_what_it_costs_to_advertise_on_the_ttc/

Perfect, thanks! I think I'm going to do 2 of them: 1 showing the official approved/being studied lines, and one showing what I would like to see.

 

[Johnny Au]

Relief line phase 1 isn't until 2030s at learliest - and may only include 3/4 new stations that would easily fit. SmartTrack might well be GO which isn't shown on subway map. I wouldn't worry about it ... by the time that happens, perhaps all the advertising will be electronic displays, with a touch screen for the map.

Don't forget the bus/streetcar arrival times. That would be extremely useful, given that it would be unlikely to install Wi-Fi in the middle of some tunnels (such as between Eglinton West and St. Clair West).

 

[DavidH]

The TTC is looking for a Wayfinding Designer and Planner.

 

[MafaldaBoy]

I still find it a bit odd that the TTC is not actively looking for people with experience in the Adobe Creative Suite, rather opting for a relatively more obscure program such as CorelDraw. They could arguably attract better designers and produce higher-quality work with Adobe CS.

 

[nfitz]

I still find it a bit odd that the TTC is not actively looking for people with experience in the Adobe Creative Suite, rather opting for a relatively more obscure program such as CorelDraw. They could arguably attract better designers and produce higher-quality work with Adobe CS.

How do you know that they opt for CorelDraw over Adobe Creative Suite given that Adobe Creative Suite is also listed in the ad?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Software? Computers? Who needs that to draw buses?

[video=youtube;HUJSF10tZbw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUJSF10tZbw[/video]

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Software? Computers? Who needs that to draw buses?

[video=youtube;HUJSF10tZbw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUJSF10tZbw[/video]

I can draw busses too. Please hire me TTC