GTHA Transit Fare Integration

[ehlow]

Yeah, Mimico makes sense if TTC buses could drop you off at the GO station.

Likewise, imagine if they did this for Agincourt? Tons of people in Scarborough could take the Sheppard bus to the GO station for a much faster commute.

 

[ehlow]

With the frequency they're offering, I don't really see the appeal of your scenario - you are paying a significant amount for a rather marginal benefit. Not sure about this - but all things being equal, I think it is more appealing to transfer from a low frequency ride to a higher frequency one than the other way around.

AoD

I mean yeah, I'm hopeful they'll increase frequency considering they've spent all that money grade separating & adding tracks to that corridor.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yeah, Mimico makes sense if TTC buses could drop you off at the GO station.

Likewise, imagine if they did this for Agincourt? Tons of people in Scarborough could take the Sheppard bus to the GO station for a much faster commute.

I mean yeah, I'm hopeful they'll increase frequency considering they've spent all that money grade separating & adding tracks to that corridor.

Yup, that's probably a far more likely scenario - it would take a lot more to entice someone to get off the subway to transfer to a once every 30 minute (heck, even once every 15 minute) GO train. For diversion to be effective, the interception point really should be at GO stations in the inner burbs where bus routes are currently offloading at subway stations instead.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

The obvious (to me) shortfall on this is not including Bloor Station.....I have tried to think of a reason why and can't come up with one.

As for the cost/timing of this it seems quite clear to me that this is a hastily put together response to that private bus in Liberty Village (and all the press it garnered). It seems as if they have said "well if they would pay $50 a month for that bus, they should be willing to pay $60 for our faster train". If that is correct, then I think the flaw in the logic is that a Liberty Village resident working downtown could pay the $50 to the private bus and not buy a metropass......use the bus for their regular commute and just pay the odd fare here and there if/when they used the TTC at other times. This plan only makes the cost of the daily/work commute $60 if you have already paid for a Metropass.....I am not a fan of the private bus but, financially, it seems a better deal to someone who lives in LV and works downtown. (in fact, if I lived in LV and did want to the use the GO for my daily commute I would be better off paying full fare on the GO and not buying a Metropass.....unless outside of work hours I did a ton of TTC riding).

 

[ehlow]

Yup, that's probably a far more likely scenario - it would take a lot more to entice someone to get off the subway to transfer to a once every 30 minute (heck, even once every 15 minute) GO train. For diversion to be effective, the interception point really should be at GO stations in the inner burbs where bus routes are currently offloading at subway stations instead.

AoD

Oh yeah, I totally agree. Looking at the schedules it seems like many stations have frequencies of every 20-30 minutes towards Union in the morning, which is not attractive enough for a TTC user to travel within Toronto. If they could get it down to every 10-15 minutes at peak hours & direction, it might be good enough, assuming the trip itself is significantly faster.

 

[LNahid2000]

Uh, yes there is. I use it all the time.

Where? You still have to walk from Main and Danforth, which is still a hassle.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Oh yeah, I totally agree. Looking at the schedules it seems like many stations have frequencies of every 20-30 minutes towards Union in the morning, which is not attractive enough for a TTC user to travel within Toronto. If they could get it down to every 10-15 minutes at peak hours & direction, it might be good enough, assuming the trip itself is significantly faster.

Not attractive enough except for those immediately around the capture area of the station, or those who are not close, but close enough and utterly desperate (LV, I am looking at you). In contexts outside of that scenario I have my doubts even if it is down to 10-15 - considering one need to add in the additional time - walking to and from stations, waiting at stations, and depending on the trip destination, additional walking time and/or transfer), plus additional buffer time because you really don't want to cut it too close. That, plus comfort - would I really want to get off a train (which I may have a seat on), get to a relatively exposed station, wait and doing nothing, get on a relatively full train and go through the slowest part of the GO commute (approach to Union)? The appeal factor is low. They really need to have almost BD level of frequency to be really effective.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Where? You still have to walk from Main and Danforth, which is still a hassle.

The tracks are about half-way between two streetcar stops. It's 120 metres from the northbound streetcar stop, and only 90 metres from the northbound bus stop to the entrance to the GO station on Main.

I have no problem getting my 2-year old and 6-year old to walk that distance, when I change from streetcar to GO Train.

Compare 120 metres to the length of the GO Train (325 metres), or the length of a subway train (140 metres) or even the distance along Bay from Front Street to the doors in the Bay Teamway to Platform 26, which the Lakeshore Train often uses (170 metres).

 

[LNahid2000]

The tracks are about half-way between two streetcar stops. It's 120 metres from the northbound streetcar stop, and only 90 metres from the northbound bus stop to the entrance to the GO station on Main.

I have no problem getting my 2-year old and 6-year old to walk that distance, when I change from streetcar to GO Train.

Compare 120 metres to the length of the GO Train (325 metres), or the length of a subway train (140 metres) or even the distance along Bay from Front Street to the doors in the Bay Teamway to Platform 26, which the Lakeshore Train often uses (170 metres).

Yes its not that bad, but the point other people were making is that you wouldn't save much time after having to make that type of transfer, and so it won't be worth $60/month to most people.

 

[gweed123]

I can definitely see the reason why they only included 2 stations in this pilot project. This is an experiment, and in an experiment you want to make it the least complex you can while still getting the data you want. I'd rather they work the kinks out with 2 stations and then roll it out smoothly to other Toronto GO stations than roll it out everywhere and have it bungled at multiple stations.

My guess is that any fare integration on non-Lakeshore trains at Toronto stations will be accompanied by service increases on those lines (which were probably going to happen anyway). That way GO can say "we're booting frequency and capacity on this corridor AND making it easier for Toronto residents to use this service". Lakeshore got a massive bump last summer, so it makes sense that it would be the first to receive this fare integration. Stouffville and Kitchener will likely be the next 2 to follow, with Kitchener coming when the post-GTS service boost comes into effect.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

gweed:

I do find it a bit odd that they chose to undertake this experiment at locations where it is least likely to have a significant impact though.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

I can definitely see the reason why they only included 2 stations in this pilot project. This is an experiment, and in an experiment you want to make it the least complex you can while still getting the data you want. I'd rather they work the kinks out with 2 stations and then roll it out smoothly to other Toronto GO stations than roll it out everywhere and have it bungled at multiple stations.

My guess is that any fare integration on non-Lakeshore trains at Toronto stations will be accompanied by service increases on those lines (which were probably going to happen anyway). That way GO can say "we're booting frequency and capacity on this corridor AND making it easier for Toronto residents to use this service". Lakeshore got a massive bump last summer, so it makes sense that it would be the first to receive this fare integration. Stouffville and Kitchener will likely be the next 2 to follow, with Kitchener coming when the post-GTS service boost comes into effect.

What are the complexities in this trial that need testing? If you have a Metropass and want to use it for GO you buy a sticker and apply said sticker to your pass. Then you stick it in your pocket and ride the GO train until a guy in a uniform says "proof of payment please" and you show him the sticker. So how is it more complex to tell said guys in uniform "the sticker is good from Bloor as well as Ex and Danforth".....what kinks are going to be worked out in the next year?

As for the increase in service....I haven't bothered to check but a lot of the talk has been that during the morning rush hour there are only 2 or 3 useful trains from Exhibition.....that would be the same for Bloor.

 

[interchange42]

Front page story here, with ride price comparisons.

42

 

[innsertnamehere]

Stouffville will likely be the first one to get all day service after Kitchener as it is the only other line to have its EA done.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

timing wise, it takes roughly 25 minutes on the subway from Main to Union. Longer if you need to wait for another train at Union to pass before getting on the yonge line. 10 minute trip time from Danforth GO to downtown on the GO train, so even if you gave yourself 10 minutes to transfer, you would still get time savings. according to twitter its roughly a 5 minute walk to the GO platform from the subway, so giving yourself a 10 minute buffer to get there should be plenty. (time leaving your house so that by the time the subway gets to Main you have 10 minutes to get to danforth).


As a frequent user of Stouffville, they can fit a few more people standing at Danforth. Its going back that may be an issue as these new danforth riders will be "stealing" seats for the 10 minute ride from existing users. GO transit crowding levels are never horrible, and in the end can handle a bit of a higher load for short inner city trips like this.

The scheduled trip time is actually 12 minutes from Danforth to Union, so if I leave 10 minutes for the transfer that means I save 3 minutes in exchange for $60 a month. I also don't work in Union station, but near St. Andrew station so there will be additional walking time. For some people it will make for a faster trip, but it's not enough an improvement to justify the extra cost and need to follow a schedule. I'm not very good at leaving home at exactly the same time, because I don't have to be thanks to the subway's frequent service!