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Rob Ford's Toronto

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That's the thing: its really easy to look back into the past and point out bigotry then it is to highlight it in our current society.

Nah.....I think it's just as easy to do both.

And racism and homophobia was considered wrong 20 years ago. But this is 2013, and Ford is guilty of both. But those are merely small facets of what makes up the monumentally flawed character of one Rob Ford.
 
Does anyone think the Feds will actually show up with the money by September 30th?

I mean, if anything, the Ford Mayoralty has shown me that practically the unthinkable is possible, so I wouldn't rule out even that at this point. However, in the more likely event they don't, it looks to be a multiple layer-cake of nasty on all levels. From the provincial liberals waving cash to get votes ("we want some too!, yeah, some over here too, why not?") and public loss of face, through Metrolinx's sidelining, to the passing by of citizens' wishes, to the sudden naked show that votes count more than planning, to the bizarre kowtowing to a Mayor so stupid he can't even identify the project being debated at the time, to the overturning of contracts and previously hard-won political decisions, the infeffectuality and chaos of a rudderless council, etc., etc.

Lots and lots of ugly in one lousy heap. I can't believe what a circus this is.

I, for one, doubt that Scarborough will ever see that subway (out of this decision, anyway), and the resultant miring of other, scheduled LRT projects looks to be near. With attendant rising costs.
 
A good article from John Lorinc:

LORINC: 8 things to consider about the Scarborough Subway.

Karen and Rob are kinda-sorta-friends again. The Liberals have found a way to mollify the long-suffering, wet-footed people of Scarborough. By-elections will be won, an exposed flank defended, caucus squawkers silenced. What’s not to love?
For all those bonuses, I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that the cozy blanket of consensus that now envelopes the city’s neglected eastern suburb may set in motion a series of unintended consequences that could threaten the future of the Finch and Sheppard LRTs, return Rob Ford to office, delay the [insert euphemism here] Relief Line, and imperil the Metrolinx investment strategy.
Oh yes, and this: I’d say there’s a decent chance that the Scarborough RT won’t be replaced anytime soon, either by a subway or an LRT. Why? Because the resulting planning delays, funding uncertainty and potential for large cancellation penalties will trigger a simmering and unpleasant fight over who should foot the bill.
But if that’s the cost of defending a Liberal seat in Scarborough, who am I to criticize?
Let’s go down the list:

1. The Liberals, according to senior government sources and news reports, are glad to see that Ford’s going to, uh, play ball, and so they’re prepared to figure out how to split the difference, whatever the difference is. But the feds are also going to be asked to pony up, which is what we reflexively do whenever we need a distraction gimmick. So Rob will call Jim and Jim will call Steve, and Steve will text Tony and ask him to write up a nice big cheque for, say, $330 million.
But the Harper Conservatives have other problems to solve right now, and so you’ve got to think that there’s a huge temptation to simply shift the $330 million previously allocated for the Sheppard LRT — which, as we all know, was not exactly Robbie’s first choice – over to the Scarborough RT upgrade. Et voila: funding!
More to the point, they’d get twice the political bang for a single buck. And, since we’re already pulling on the LRT thread to see how far it unwinds, what’s another yank or two?

2. Now, imagine you live in York Region, and you have been lusting after that Yonge Street subway extension up to Richmond Hill. What transportation minister Glen Murray et al have just demonstrated is that queue-jumping is not only possible; it is also rewarding.
In short, York Region pols have been handed a malodorous political grievance, which, I’m guessing, they’ll be more than happy to deploy in the run-up to next year’s provincial election. Scarborough whined and whined, and they got a subway as a reward. The Liberals have vulnerable MPPs in York Region, and so they’ll be surely pondering whether a short subway line may be the price to pay for a few more 905 seats. (James Pasternak, he of the Sheppard West connector, must surely be thinking the same sorts of thoughts today.)

3. All this means the Downtown Relief Line, contrary to Metrolinx’s earlier claims, is suddenly no longer the next major subway priority project, if I’m not mistaken. But that’s okay, because we don’t have a name for it yet, so we shouldn’t start planning it seriously.

4. Now, when Murray emerges from the Tarot card reader’s tent in the fall with a sorta-kinda-maybe plan for the Metrolinx Big Move investment strategy and the desired revenue tools, many people in the GTHA may find themselves pondering the following intriguing question: How is it, that after being told countless times that there’s no money for transit and therefore we need to create a system of “dedicated” taxes and levies, all of a sudden there’s money for transit. Poof! And not just chesterfield change, but almost $1 billion that no one knew we had.
Besides making the Board of Trade/Civic Action crowd look like a bunch of chumps, such gestures may prompt many voters to conclude that they’re being had on this revenue tool thing. Certainly, Tim Hudak and Andrea Horwath, neither big fans of such taxes, will be inspired to ask probing questions in the Legislature about how the Liberals pulled this chubby rabbit out of the hat.
And you know what? They’d be right to ask. I’m wondering, too.

5. Say you work at Metrolinx, and many smart and dedicated people do. What did the Liberals just tell you? Answer: that what you do doesn’t matter. Metrolinx officials can plan, consult and tender until they are green in the face. But it’s not important. What’s important are elections.

6. Here’s another group that’s no longer important: all the thousands of Torontonians who are (naively) participating in chief planner Jennifer Keesmaat’s three-phase consultation about made-in-Toronto revenue tools and transit priorities. But hey, zap, zap! Decisions are being made, and quickly. But the city has to pretend these consultations are about, well, consulting residents. Yet the truth is, residents and their views don’t matter. What matters are, you guessed it, elections.

7. Finally, let’s loop back to this money question. Metrolinx officials say that $85 million has already been spent on the RT conversion, and that some of the funds have gone towards the design and construction of an LRT storage facility that, well, doesn’t need to be quite as big as it was going to be.
Hey, what’s a little waste when we have a big happy summer consensus?
But the more intriguing question has to do with Bombardier, which was expecting an order for about twice as many LRVs as it will now receive. That’s easy: let’s just tell them to build subway trains instead, and all will be forgiven, right? Yet aren’t big equipment tenders supposed to go out for competitive bidding? That’s what Rob Ford says. In this case, tenders will be inconvenient, inefficient. It will be much, much easier to placate a potentially litigious supplier with an inflated replacement contract than to get the most cost competitive product.

8. If you’re a swing voter in the 905, and you’ve watched ehealthgate and ORNGEgate and gasplantgate and now you’re pondering whether the Liberals are trying to buy a by-election by spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a subway that doesn’t add much utility, you might conclude, next year, that this party really needs to spend some quality time on the Opposition side of the Leg.
For the record, major RT conversion contracts, according to Metrolinx, were supposed to be let as early as this fall. But now the good people of Scarborough are going to have to wait for many more months and perhaps even years as the parties to this excellent consensus bicker over the nitpicky details of what they’ve wrought.
But hey, waiting for the transit to arrive is what we’ve always done in this town, so why should 2013 be any different. It’s kind of like waiting for Godot.
 
5. Say you work at Metrolinx, and many smart and dedicated people do. What did the Liberals just tell you? Answer: that what you do doesn’t matter. Metrolinx officials can plan, consult and tender until they are green in the face. But it’s not important. What’s important are elections.

I was thinking this earlier in the week. What use are skilled public servants like planners, business managers, policy analysts and engineers if we ignore their recommendations and sway to blatant electioneering?
 
Don't forget to add the $100+ million he wasted on his first day in office by cancelling Transit City.

By the end of his term, Ford may have wasted enough money to build one of his precious subways.

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What use are skilled public servants like planners, business managers, policy analysts and engineers if we ignore their recommendations and sway to blatant electioneering?
Obviously none since that should have translated to the DRL being under construction right now with the $8 billion we got half a decade ago.
 
That's the thing: its really easy to look back into the past and point out bigotry then it is to highlight it in our current society.

Look, I'm not that old. Gay marriage to me is a no-brainer. But it just strikes me as self-congratulatory to chastise people who grew up in other generations as being bigoted. There are probably a whole plethora of institutionalized beliefs and values we hold now that will be considered bigoted twenty years down the line. Its really easy to see in retrospect, but not when its part of the culture and society you're raised in.

Then we, as a nation, have to admit we were wrong. There's nothing wrong with saying, "hey, we [Canada] are sorry about being bigoted hompohobes back in the 60s. We won't do it again".
 
All this means the Downtown Relief Line, contrary to Metrolinx’s earlier claims, is suddenly no longer the next major subway priority project, if I’m not mistaken. But that’s okay, because we don’t have a name for it yet, so we shouldn’t start planning it seriously.

1. We have a name for the Downtown Relief Line - The Relief Line

2. We have started planning. Work on the Relief Line is progressing. The TTC released a report on it last year. Metrolinx is doing the same now. And City Council has directed that an environmental assessment be completed, due sometime in early 2014). As far as I can see, the Relief Line remains the must urgent transit project in the province.. But whether or not it is the next major subway project is anyones guess. The Relief Line is a much longer line and likely faces greater engineering challenges due to its alignment. Because of this, construction will likely start after the Scarborough Subway. Either way, I can guarantee you that the RL will open after the Scarborough Subway because of the size of the project.
 
Yes.

Do you think slaveowners in the 1700s were racist?

You know, since I'm being accused of being an apologist for homophobia, I really don't have a desire to even continue this particular discussion. I've made my views on gay marriage clear, which are that I support it.

Obviously, what I was saying is that older generations typically have the institutionalized views they grew up with. Ford grew up in a generation in which the vast majority of people were against gay marriage, so I think singling him out as a bigot is simplistic. Its not that shocking that his views some years ago would be such, and anyone who pretends differently is probably being disingenuous. Keep in mind: at the same time as Ford made these views apparent, these were also the same as Obama's views. And yet...you don't here him being derided as a homophobic bigot.

I think people have very black and white thinking when it comes to these issues. It's a combination of naivety and self congratulation. The reality is that most of the people here probably hold views that will seem backwards or bigoted in twenty years time.
 
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Obviously, what I was saying is that older generations typically have the institutionalized views they grew up with. Ford grew up in a generation in which the vast majority of people were against gay marriage, so I think singling him out as a bigot is simplistic. Its not that shocking that his views some years ago would be such, and anyone who pretends differently is probably being disingenuous. Keep in mind: at the same time as Ford made these views apparent, these were also the same as Obama's views. And yet...you don't here him being derided as a homophobic bigot.

Really? I'm from Ford's generation, and I was not "institutionalized" by views I grew up with; the whole "I came from a broken home" crap is old and shows no imagination. Adults make their own choices, if they base them on ignorance or facts they still have to face the outcome of their decisions.

Ford is the topic of this forum, not Obama.
 
You know, since I'm being accused of being an apologist for homophobia, I really don't have a desire to even continue this particular discussion. I've made my views on gay marriage clear, which are that I support it.

Obviously, what I was saying is that older generations typically have the institutionalized views they grew up with. Ford grew up in a generation in which the vast majority of people were against gay marriage, so I think singling him out as a bigot is simplistic. Its not that shocking that his views some years ago would be such, and anyone who pretends differently is probably being disingenuous.

First of all, where/when you grew up is no excuse for discrimination. Second of all, Ford is a young guy. He's in his early 40s. He didn't grow up in 1920. Most people I know his age aren't homophobic. I'd expect the same from our mayor.



Keep in mind: at the same time as Ford made these views apparent, these were also the same as Obama's views. And yet...you don't here him being derided as a homophobic bigot.

Obama was absolutely a bigoted homophobe. I've called him out on it multiple times. But he's not one today. That's why you don't see me, or anyone else criticizing him. That would be unfair. If in the future, Obama shows that he is a homophobic bigot, I'll be the first to call him out on it.

It should also be pointed out that Obama isn't the topic of discussion here.

I think people have very black and white thinking when it comes to these issues. It's a combination of naivety and self congratulation. The reality is that most of the people here probably hold views that will seem backwards or bigoted in twenty years time.

I'll apologize for any bigoted view I may have at the moment when the time comes. I don't wish to be bigoted upon anybody.
 
Gay marriage to me is a no-brainer. But it just strikes me as self-congratulatory to chastise people who grew up in other generations as being bigoted.
Agreed. Yet at the same time, Rob Ford is a relative youngster. We're long past the time where it was okay to be bigoted against gays. Ford's behaviour is not acceptable. If he was the same age as Hazel McCallion, then perhaps I could see why he'd do it. But that still wouldn't mean that it would be okay for someone with such views to hold public office.

And at the same time, we have people who claim to not be bigots, who think it's okay to support a bigot. No it isn't. That makes you just as much as a bigot as he is.

Keep in mind: at the same time as Ford made these views apparent, these were also the same as Obama's views. And yet...you don't here him being derided as a homophobic bigot.
A) Ford's views have not appeared to have changed at all. B) I most certainly have called Obama a homophobic bigot before, and even criticized his homophobic views in this forum as recently as 2010.
 
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And at the same time, we have people who claim to not be bigots, who think it's okay to support a bigot. No it isn't. That makes you just as much as a bigot as he is.

I don't support ford but... I think you're going way out of line here. You're allowed to support the Mayor for different reasons, and just because you support, say, subways it doesn't mean you condone any bigotry that he might demonstrate. It's not black or white, all or nothing, etc... it's a whole variety of shades of grey, and no one is beholden to agree with every single position of a person they vote for or support when it comes to politicians. Hell, if I was required to take on or support every viewpoint of whoever I vote for - or if I had to agree with everything they've said in order to vote for them - I'd probably never cast a vote. It's unfair to Ford's supporters to paint them all as bigots or racist or whatever just because of something Ford has said or a view he might hold, unless you talk to them and they say "Yeah, I love Ford 'cause he hates queers!" - then, you've got a point.
 
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