EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
no that was a previous version of them which led to the TTC insisting on stainless steel frames for buses.
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no that was a previous version of them which led to the TTC insisting on stainless steel frames for buses.
Steve X
Senior Member
Something is old. Did they forget to make a news release for 4420 entering service?
drum118
Superstar
Maybe they decided time to stop it and only come out for major mile stoppers.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
How did we announce the arrival of each CLRV and ALRV?
Megaton327
Senior Member
So, I've been thinking about this, and with the PCC on 509 recently...what exactly was the benefit, to the average rider, of the CLRV over the PCC? They seem almost identical from a rider's perspective. PCC windows seem larger+open more and yield substantially more airflow, I feel; seats are more comfortable, too. The ALRV is bigger, sure, but there are relatively few of them and they saw limited deployment mostly on 501. Honestly, I feel like the PCC is a more enjoyable ride than the CLRV--I know riding it a couple of times in the summer isn't the same as commuting daily for years, but the airflow+seats are very nice and there don't seem to be rider-facing downsides, really.
On the other hand, the LFLRVs are replacing all cars, they have air conditioning, 4 door boarding, wheelchair access, bike storage, they were the first surface vehicles with Presto, they're POP and have the machines on+offboard now including debit/credit payment, bigger windows/better views, seem to accelerate faster, feel smoother when standing, have external announcements and LED route signs, they're *much* bigger...a lot more that affects the average rider.
crs1026
Senior Member
One did not have advantages over the other, so much as one design was 40 years newer than the other.
I agree that the open-window experience of a PCC car in good weather is wonderful. The ventilation in bad weather wasn't quite so nice. CLRV missed the mark badly on ventilation design - the small openable windows are actually a retrofit. Flexities have fixed that deficit. Open windows aren't on any more.
The CLRV's had awful seventies-typical interiors, which I'm not willing to say anything nice about, although they doubtless had some good points. The CLRV propulsion system does not enhance the rider experience, either.
El Paso is bringing a small number of PCC carbodies up to 2016 technical standards. I'm not sure that would be something to aspire to in Toronto. Hopefully the Flexities are a reliable, easy to maintain, easy to keep clean product with a good long lifespan. I'm old enough to remember the PCC's fondly. I won't miss the CLRV's.
- Plan
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Fron a rider's point-of-view, my favourite streetcar is the PCC, followed the the (A)CLRV and then LFLRV.
The ride on the PCC is wonderfully smooth, seats are very comfortable and great ventilation, as you guys mentioned.
The LFLRV has air conditioning, but other than that there aren't many redeeming qualities. The LFLRV by far has the lest comfortable seating of all TTC vehicles, and the seating arrangement makes it a challenge to travel through the vehicle. The ride is also awfully jerky.
The ride on the PCC is wonderfully smooth, seats are very comfortable and great ventilation, as you guys mentioned.
The LFLRV has air conditioning, but other than that there aren't many redeeming qualities. The LFLRV by far has the lest comfortable seating of all TTC vehicles, and the seating arrangement makes it a challenge to travel through the vehicle. The ride is also awfully jerky.
Amare
Senior Member
Agreed, the seating arrangement is just odd and it could've been arranged better. There are only so many ways the seats could be arranged since the Flexities are 100% low-floor but it seems like the TTC went with the worst possible arrangement.
I would've excused them for the one time mistake, but they've been repeating odd seating arrangement with the bus fleet as well.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
In the original CLRV mockup, the seating was diagonally.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
During my visit to the Leslie Barns this morning I was reminded of how poorly our tushes are treated today by the TTC. Streetcar seating today is essentially a bolt of fabric stretched over hard plastic, while the first CLRVs had a thin layer of foam between cloth and seat frame, and the PWC AND PCC had fully sprung cushioning in the seats. I imagine this ergonomically degradation is due to cost of both acquisition/install and maintain, but I do miss the softer seating of years past.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Also fire prevention. The fabric is fire retardant, it may leave a burn stain, but will go out and not spread. In addition, it is cheaper to replace if your neighbourhood vandal does he or her work.
JJ's Trackside Rambles
New Member
TransitBart
Senior Member
Yee-ha. No more de-wiring. Trolley poles cute. (Artefacts). Pantographs 21st century.(in Toronto anyway).
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Now if we can just get the wires underground like a good 21st century city we'd be places...
AlbertHWagstaff
Senior Member
The CLRV has steps that are closer to the ground, requiring less of a climb to board. That, the large windows and the air suspension were among the touted improvements over the PCC when the cars were introduced. Chopper control allowing the smooth acceleration vs the sometimes jerky movement of a PCC (especially in heavy traffic) was another feature mentioned as an improvement.
The first Swiss-built cars delivered had the angled seating in the front half of the car but never ran in service like that.